pamplemousse

Kets, you could always sell them to whatever land needed them, in effect, cornering the market and creating some supply and demand tension.

Oooh, Curry, that's a cool idea. Then there could be highwaymen and pirates and...ok, ok, I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but I do think that there are lots of ancillary ideas that could come from having goods.

When I say we are neutral, yes, I mean we are neutral about everything. Society has rules. MD has a looser set of rules and mores, as it should.

The Archivists have authority, not to judge, not to rule, but to document and chronicle. We must make decisions on what becomes fact, history and what is deemed "important" enough to be written down. So, Jester, no, you cannot favor one thing over another. As an Archivist you are friend nor enemy to no one.

We will stick with your example of war. If you favor war over harmony, or harmony over war, you are choosing to support one thing over another. How can one make an objective decison if you are pulled one way or another.

Are we human and subjected to feelings and responses? Yes, of course. But as Archivists, we cannot allow our bias, friendships or penchant for certain things to cloud our judgement of the information
we are privy too, or what we write about it.

I have always thought of the tiny Angien as a totem.

A sign of sorts, like "Abandon lightness all ye that enter" or "Please leave your conscience at with the coat check girl and don't forget a ticket"

Most of you are theorizing that it has to do with balance, but I think of it more as a warning, a touchstone of sorts for those who enter to remember the small part of them that was lightness and goodness, and to either protect it or abandon it when passing through the Gates.

I have always thought of the tiny Angien as a totem.

A sign of sorts, like "Abandon lightness all ye that enter" or "Please leave your conscience at with the coat check girl and don't forget a ticket"

Most of you are theorizing that it has to do with balance, but I think of it more as a warning, a touchstone of sorts for those who enter to remember the small part of them that was lightness and goodness, and to either protect it or abandon it when passing through the Gates.

Ok, that is a bit creepy, Thomas.

[quote name='Nex' date='27 September 2009 - 03:25 PM' timestamp='1254079516' post='42997']
would it have been fine if he hadn't cared for friendship, but only for the good name of the land he serves? while it IS the kings prerogative to listen to, or not listen to his advisors, even second-in-commands or co-rulers, it does seem questionable to exile a commited and loyal advisor because he didn't execute a plan he saw as conflicting with the best interests of golemus AND his personal beliefs.if an advisor has to fear the reaction of the king, his advise will become useless
[/quote]

I could not agree more, Nex.

Yrthilian, you villify someone for having a conscience, for not wanting to harm a friendship, that shows your true mettle.

As for you being removed as King, well, hasn't it already happened in the hearts and minds of the public, as well as your own? You stated to me, in a PM (in game)when I asked you if I could still visit Golemus, and the Beach specifically, that "I am far to week to intefer in anything anyones wants to do." Perhaps born out of frustration or a wearyness regarding these events or just a weak will, I do not know.

Golemus deserves better than any those things, Yrthilian. Step down or be forced out. Do not let lands you once cared for languish in selfish hands. Grido shows more care for Golemus then you do. In calling for your resignation, Grido has put himself in the line of fire (something a leader should be willing to do) and in this one perilous act, he proved himself more worthy to call Golemus his land then you.

To be clear, I don't think [b]anyone [/b]should be King. I think that titles such as these breed nothing but vainglorious, impotent leaders who remain out of touch with their "subjects".

I think this is a great idea, as I suggested it in the mood panel a while back. Thanks for being on the ball and making a post for it, Peace!

I think it will balance out the Day of Tranquility a bit.

This is a perfect example of WHY we have the PL comments visible in the menu now.

"In this way its also possible to spot offending public log entries that according to the recent rule changes are no longer allowed." (Quoted from the Announcements)

I asked the person who wrote this comment to remove it, citing that it was incredibly inappropriate and that it offensive to people, myself included. He refused to remove it, citing reasons of his own.

So, if the person responsible for this entry will not be the one to change it, what do we do?

I think this is a great idea, as I suggested it in the mood panel a while back. Thanks for being on the ball and making a post for it, Peace!

I think it will balance out the Day of Tranquility a bit.

[quote name='Nex' date='27 September 2009 - 03:25 PM' timestamp='1254079516' post='42997']
would it have been fine if he hadn't cared for friendship, but only for the good name of the land he serves? while it IS the kings prerogative to listen to, or not listen to his advisors, even second-in-commands or co-rulers, it does seem questionable to exile a commited and loyal advisor because he didn't execute a plan he saw as conflicting with the best interests of golemus AND his personal beliefs.if an advisor has to fear the reaction of the king, his advise will become useless
[/quote]

I could not agree more, Nex.

Yrthilian, you villify someone for having a conscience, for not wanting to harm a friendship, that shows your true mettle.

As for you being removed as King, well, hasn't it already happened in the hearts and minds of the public, as well as your own? You stated to me, in a PM (in game)when I asked you if I could still visit Golemus, and the Beach specifically, that "I am far to week to intefer in anything anyones wants to do." Perhaps born out of frustration or a wearyness regarding these events or just a weak will, I do not know.

Golemus deserves better than any those things, Yrthilian. Step down or be forced out. Do not let lands you once cared for languish in selfish hands. Grido shows more care for Golemus then you do. In calling for your resignation, Grido has put himself in the line of fire (something a leader should be willing to do) and in this one perilous act, he proved himself more worthy to call Golemus his land then you.

To be clear, I don't think [b]anyone [/b]should be King. I think that titles such as these breed nothing but vainglorious, impotent leaders who remain out of touch with their "subjects".

Men look [b][i]so[/i][/b] much better with facial hair. Congrats to all the fellas making this world a more handsome place and doing their part to raise awareness.

[quote name='Jester' timestamp='1292449118' post='75520']
"Using alts to increase the number of rebels of a land will be punished"

I read that, but it didn't say anywhere that its not possible. For example, you're not supposed to use alts for adepts and worshipers, and it will be punished, but its fairly easy anyways and I haven't heard of anyone being caught. Be realistic, if its possible, people will do it, whether or not it will be punished.

As to the issue of a person having two active roles, I don't think that's very limiting. How many people do you know with two completely separate characters in all of MD? Not enough to make it a deciding factor.

"Having 100 alts rebelling will achieve next to nothing towards overthrowing a king. There is no need for an alt limitation on rebels."

If there was only the 100 alts this would be true. What if, however, there was a difference of only 10 people between the members of a land and the Rebels? Alts could make a huge difference. Also, think of people from other lands being recruited by members of the Rebels in another land. Someone in Necrovion could ask someone from GG to make a simple alt, have them act interested in Necrovion, log on for 30 days, and then rebel.

This whole situation is far too easily abused for my liking.
[/quote]

Considering that the rebels do not have an automated system for dethroning a King, then anyone who used alts to inflate the number of rebels to a significant extent will come under the scrutiny of either Mur or the Council. In which case, they will most likely be found out and punished, with no damage being done to the position of the King.

If you are indeed worried about the potential impact to newcomers, what I said should be enough to reassure you.

On the other hand, if your concern is merely for keeping your crown, I would suggest that you try to live up to the expectations of your position. You would not have to worry about rebels if you were actually an active and dutiful King.

I would also point out that in your initial post, you are essentially threatening to punish innocent newcomers for your own unjustified paranoia.

I just love people twisting other people's words to their own benefit.

Keith Moon is an excommunicate, and not a rebel, but I wanted to say something tangential to the subject of "rebel abuse" (of which I see no evidence). The rebels are not all whining, and seasonal considerations are slowing the progress of their campaign. I submit to the community that it is still too early to tell whether the partly implemented system treats kings, rebels, and loyal citizens fairly.

I'll also comment as a king.
There has to be a reason to remain loyal and a deterrent from going rebel.
If you can go rebel and then claim the benefits of regular loyal citizens and be immune from excommunication, then what is the point of remaining loyal?
By going rebel, you are working against the king. You really cannot expect the king to be nicey nicey to you for that. There has to be consequences.
Going rebel should be a serious action, with equally serious consequences. Otherwise, you will have people going rebel for reasons like being bored or trying it out for a laugh.
As it is I think that rebels have it far too handy right now. Other than a lack of WPs there seems to be very little else they lose and the king can do very little against them otherwise.
I would also say that imo, rebels should not be allowed join other lands, or at the very least suffer a penalty for doing so.
Why you might ask? Well simply put, rebels have the ability to bring negative attention on a king and a land. Anyone can go rebel, even if it is purely down to a personal issue with their king/queen. They can do it purely to cause trouble or out of spite. Then the king and land are stuck with that rebel until they decide to leave or apologise.
If they were not a rebel, the king could remove them from the land, or if they were in another land, he could approach the king of that land about their behaviour (ok, doesn't work for non-king lands, but in general they are supposed to be neutral). In either of these cases the rebel person would no longer be getting WPs from the king and the king would have options to deal with them.
So, if you are planning to go rebel, you should have a plan and you should be getting support for your cause. If you are simply one or two people railing against the king, then maybe you should be leaving the land and not rebelling in the first place? Remember, going rebel is a direct declaration against the king. That means its personal by nature. You are saying you want to remain in the land, but you don't want the king to govern anymore. So, your problem is with the king, not with the land.
I would also like to point out that anyone could go rebel, not because the king is doing a bad job, but because they feel that they want the crown for themselves.
If you want to stage a coup then there has to be risk. Right now, there seems to be very little. Kings seem to pretty much have to just let you try, they can't remove you once you go rebel.
I appreciate its not nice, but going rebel shouldn't be nice. Its ugly and so can the fallout.
Bottom line, if you go rebel, you are acting against the king (and to varying extents, the other citizens) and you can't expect the same treatment and liberties as those that are loyal.

i fail to see what the rebels are complaining about...Roland has the right idea, HE at least knew what to expect...you cant just rebel and expect to be treated fairly. thats one of the main ideals of rebellion isnt it?

Rask purposefully ignored the rules I had set for the Land and was actively working against me. He was invited into Necrovion out of my respect for Khalazdad even though he made very clear his plans to take over the Crown. He spent the majority of his time teaching people about the Desert and telling people I was not worthy to rule Necrovion, even though those were both against my laws.
I told him not to insult my reign in public and not to refer to Necrovion as a Desert, and the next day caught him telling new players that inside the Howling Gates was the Desert and trying to educate them about it. While he did not say that Necrovion was a Desert, telling people that asked about Necrovion about the Desert instead is tantamount to the same thing. I very clearly stated that if he continued I would take action against him, and he responded that I should stop talking and just do it already, and insulted my reign once more. Since this was not the attitude of someone who was going to change their ways, I did as he asked and exiled him.

Asyun was banned from Necrovion for multiple reasons. Initially I had warned her against insulting people inside Necrovion and saying they did belong there, as she did with Amoran when she was at the Accursed Growth. Aysun had no reason to say that Necrovion despised Amoran for being there, yet she did. After I warned her multiple times, she refused to stop doing so.

Aysun also spread false information about how Necrovion worked to players, and after I corrected the information Aysun chose to continue spreading it. As King I cannot tolerate players in my land working towards the ignorance of others regarding such important knowledge.

These alone would have been reason enough for me to exile her, but Pamplemousse was defending her, back when I was listening to Pamplemousse's advice. She said she would take on Aysun and train her not to present things as fact when they were clearly false, but Pamplemousse failed to change how Aysun acted.

As soon as Pamplemousse was no longer Queen (which is explained elsewhere) there was nobody to protect Aysun. Aysun chose that day to publicly insult me and to blatantly spread false information, so she was banned.

[quote name='Akasha' timestamp='1290504966' post='72882']
Your signature photo must be removed, or resized, it violates one of the forum rules:

- Signature pictures may not exceed following rules: Height: 150px Width: 500px File size: 50kb.
[/quote]
What I was referring to about images was what if that image has non-English text.
There is not a case of that given in the rules.

[quote name='Akasha' timestamp='1290504966' post='72882']
This is an international forum, therefore international language to be used, aka english and not offensive.
[/quote]
It is not fair to judge on the signature when a signature specifically is not included in the rules.
Furthermore I have provided reasons as to why it does not need to be deemed offensive (origin and motive)

[quote name='Akasha' timestamp='1290504966' post='72882']
Princ knows very well this rule as he posted injurring texts on the mod panel long ago and got warned for that and explained that only english to be used; aka we are speaking about a player that violated the forum rules more times in the past.
[/quote]
His number of past transgressions does not validate the fabrication of new crimes. It can only serve to reinforce a punishment or give inference regarding intention.
Since he has been informed about these rules previously, he can't argue not knowing them.

[quote name='Akasha' timestamp='1290504966' post='72882']
Exepcions can be, ofc the scientific names/expressions, like the one i have for the tomato, wich is 1 word, not a volume of offensive text.
[/quote]
The rules do not state this. Also I have argued that why their texts could be considered expressions.

[quote name='Akasha' timestamp='1290504966' post='72882']
Nobody said this is dictatorship, but it is a forum and has rules, rules that must be respected or else we, the mods/admins will enforce them in order to keep the forum clean off all sorts of misery that some can bring in.
[/quote]
Rules that should then be applied to both of us, right? I direct you to my previous statements regarding the rules and interpretations.


----------------------------------------

I would like to clarify that I am not saying that they did not break any rules.
Rather, the following: the rules are not explicit enough, applying them to extremes is absurd. Extending them to signatures is within the bounds of the rules, but because they can be interpreted so differently, means that to punish on grounds of a signature, there should be a rule specifically stating it instead of just a "post".
Let us say that someone never makes a post, just has a non-English signature, it can't be considered part of a post they made because they never have, yet the rules need to apply.


Edit: for clarity.

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1290503466' post='72874']
It seems we need to define what a phrase is and what an expression is. Cause you confuse them Ren .
[/quote]
I'm sorry, this is not the case.
I said that based on the origin of the text and length, it can be considered a phrase (or in this case expression).
Please do not get into a battle of semantics where English is not the first language and the speakers must speak in English.
For example you made a semantic mistake which I will not bring up, because it unnecessary and is not relevant.


[quote name='dst' timestamp='1290503466' post='72874']
I said that we are allowed to use expressions (want me to look over the forum to search for some to give as example?) not several pages from books.
[/quote]
This is my exact argument. To was not several pages. It was 3 short paragraphs. I feel it can be considered an expression in this case.

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1290503466' post='72874']
Aren't the signatures part of the forum? Isn't the mood panel part of the forum? Isn't the personal profile part of the forum?
[/quote]
I have already explained this twice:
First - the rules use the word "post" - would that not imply a post on the forum. Not a display of a signature? (not trying to get into semantics but it creates different interpretations since they are the rules). It is not explicitly stated that signatures may not contain another language.
Second - Why are both Akasha and I allowed to write in another language in this thread when the rules don't allow it specifically, yet Rhaegar and Ravenstrider may not do so in their signatures?

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1290503466' post='72874']
You see, on the last 2 ones you're not allowed to use insults. Why would you be allowed to use it on the first one?
[/quote]
I'm not saying that they are allowed. I am saying that the motive does not add up for it to be considered as offensive. How else can you differentiate from what is to be removed or not? For example: What if I find Akasha's signature offensive?
See below for further expansion.


[quote name='dst' timestamp='1290503466' post='72874']
This is not an argument. Doesn't matter that it is a song. They used it to make a statement. Or isn't that one of the purposes of a signature?
I find that statement offending.
[/quote]
The fact that it is a song shows that it wasn't written by either of them as an attack on someone. You find it offending, I don't. Where do you make a fair line? I propose on motive and origin: it was not created to offend you particularly, it was placed in the signature to make a statement (as you said) whose offensive nature is clearly debatable.

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1290503466' post='72874']
Raven is at his first offense on the forum. So he may have a lesser punishment. But Princ should know better.
[/quote]
And my response has been to show why such a drastic action was not necessary in this case.

I take it you are referring to this rule:
[quote name='Da Rules']The forum language is English, no other language is to be used anywhere on forum except in the Translation section where you may post in the language that you are offering to translate the game into.[/quote]
My personal interpretation is this gets applied to [b]posts[/b], particularly since it mentions posting in a section, and since it does not explicitly include signatures. Let us assume it encompasses everything: what about images, what about songs? This is an extreme application of a rule which is not clear to begin with.

As for other languages in a signature, what about your own?
"[i]Solanum Lycopersicon Esculentum[/i]"


The words in Princ and Ravenstrider's signatures are from a song, they are not an attack on someone, it is my understanding that you have taken it as an attack, judging by the suggestion to ban them.


Now about the extreme rule application:
Both you and I have breached the forum rules by posting content in different languages. Surely you see how ridiculous such an application is?


[quote name='dst' timestamp='1290500218' post='72862']
Second:English is the official language allowed on the forum for a reason. Yes, we use expressions (Latin, Greek etc) but we don't quote volumes.
[/quote]
Perhaps I missed it, but the use of a phrase being allowed in a different is not mentioned in the rules.

[attachment=2175:Before.jpg]
Taken on the 3rd of November or 12 days ago if you like .
[attachment=2176:After.jpg]
Today.

My mustache is older (33) than the average MD player, so I'm gonna pass on this one... though I have bought 3 copies of the Big Book on prostate cancer and given/loaned them all out.

[i][color="#2e8b57"]This is not a contest where size matters, because it doesnt! Its what you do with it that counts!

This month is the month of Mo-vember, where guys around the world are growing moustaches to support Prostate Cancer Awareness.
This quest will require you to grow a 'stache and submit " before" pics to register.

At the end of the month, post a pic of what you have created with your stache and the winner will be duly reward with a WP

Post your before pic on this thread, and at the end of the month, post your after pic.

'staches will be judged on both length and creativity... so style em as you wish (hair gel and ribbons are also welcome)

Prizes will be awarded for second and third place.

Edited for spelling.
[/color][/i]

[quote name='That Other Guy' date='10 August 2010 - 03:41 PM' timestamp='1281469296' post='65662']
I'm not too sure on how good people are at basic logic, but this more or less all ties in together. I am rather surprised that A vet like Pamplemousse would be taking such a route rather than contact the person(s) who have actually been working in regards to this ([u]Yes to spell it out:[/u] Item usage and resource guilds are tied in together!) [b][i]*GASP*[/i][/b]

Maybe I am looking too deeply into this but to me this just seems like the common sense regard into this [i]"new feature"[/i] that is being used for personal PR reasons to hog some glory.

[u][b]Common Sense:[/b][/u] 0 // [b][u]Powermonging:[/u][/b] 1

Just my opinion.
[/quote]


I appreciate your opinion, but as I stated, this was merely a suggestion, an idea, not a request for power or a shining path to glory. I had no idea when I posted this that anyone else was working on a similar idea.

It is my opinion that MD is a community where people can share thoughts and suggestions in a public forum, such as this, and collaborate on any number of plans to create something interesting and worthwhile.

Thank you for your candor.