HC crisis.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1360925266' post='132673']
Also, another factor: I personally would very love [b]to try out[/b] at BHC, [b]but I simply can't afford to be online 24/7[/b] during the competition, and Head contests [b]require[/b] that from you if [b]you seek for success[/b].
[/quote]

Your post doesnt really make sense to me rheaggy. You state you want to try it out, but give the reason that you cannot try it out becuase you need to be online 24/7 to win. To me trying something out isnt planning to win. Do you mean because you do not have time to properly play and therefore feel you will not be able to win, you dont want to try it out?

[Burns]

I wasn't joking at all. You have a bunch of spells now, there's no competition from real fighters anymore, you very rarely have people abusing privileges to be in locked locations during stage 1, and with viscosity you can hide pretty well...

It's very fair in comparison to some quests, even. Sometimes somebody says that they are treated badly, but when all are treated equally badly, i don't see an unfairness.

Edit: And i don't see how more fairness would lead to more participants, either. There are no fighters left to participate. You're complaining about how evil we all are, and how unfair HC is... Of course it seems unfair to the one guy trying when he gets treated just like all the others that don't. You run and hide while others play, then you get ported to GoE and suddenly you lose your heads. Ohh, the unfairness, everybody else didn't waste time running, i did, and still we're all here... That's one of the fairness tweaks put in action.
Just go through the announcements. We all won already, and none of us can do anything anymore. We can't even trigger stage 2 to make it quicker. 90% of MD just sits and watches the other 10% 'battling', which, in most cases, is reduced to 'Oh no, you can have the heads, i'll go for first place next time, do what you like'

That's where your participants are. They either have a medal, or don't want to risk coming in second in a real contest, because they know fully well that the field will be a little smaller next time around, and then they can win uncontested.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Burns

[Jubaris]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1360926040' post='132675']
Your post doesnt really make sense to me rheaggy. You state you want to try it out, but give the reason that you cannot try it out becuase you need to be online 24/7 to win. To me trying something out isnt planning to win. Do you mean because you do not have time to properly play and therefore feel you will not be able to win, you dont want to try it out?
[/quote]

Something like that. I find the Head contest a very interesting competition, just, if I were to compete, I want to do it properly, more so because you have to pay to participate in BHC So I hold myself in reserve till the planets align and I happen to be pretty free for some BHC in the future.

[Miq]

I remember that i was online 18h a day when i did my HC, counting constantly everyones movements and counting every head. I also chose very carefully the HC in witch to participate. Nowdays i don't see any of that (besides choosing when to participate.). But i had the must fun i ever had in MD. Do you? It's actually fun do find a way do overcome the log outters and so on.

Also i think the stronger players mess with HC because they don't want anyone to win for nothing. I would do the same, sweat a week or so .

And still scrap HC for now!

[No one]

So, all the fuss is about 1 player ?

[quote]
[color="#CCCCCC"]Ann. 2493 - [2013-02-16 00:00:07 - Stage 11][/color]
[b]Head contest ended[/b]
The contest ended, first 4 positions in each MP group received their reward consisting of important skill and stats improvements, players received medals according to the contest rules. The medals are given as acknowledgement of their perseverance and skill. The players that won the contest are
[i]Mindpower 4 - First: [b]Lazarus [/b]Second: [b]None [/b]Third: [b]None [/b]Forth:
Mindpower 5 - First: [b]None [/b]Second: [b]None [/b]Third: [b]None [/b]Forth: [/i]
. Thank you all for participating and see you again at the next contest...and remember, the head contest is UNFAIR
[/quote]

Please add a voting system and if there aren't at least 15-20 players, just don't run the HC.

[Tom Pouce]

[quote name='No one' timestamp='1360977858' post='132693']
So, all the fuss is about 1 player ?



Please add a voting system and if there aren't at least 15-20 players, just don't run the HC.
[/quote]

seem to me such an vote needed to get an HC ,, there will be never another HC ... LOL

Ok Hc started, you old players participated but since one can win it only once, .. with time all players got some winning either black or gold head

so after that initial phase , only relatively new players or new alts participate in HC

so , it was HC with very few participant for an long time

then some complain that they want to participate again since they remember first phase and tought it had beed fun : BHC was born

(since i was not there, ill suppose ...) that an very strong player participate eon, and was always winning, and got to manage that

Now some complains, eon quit ... no more BHC ... even as he is not there not many seem to want to participate in that

Getting back on HC

for some time it was fun in an sence, every one could get if he did no had and head winning either balck or gold
competion at mp5 ... not much because most mp5 had won it once
competion at mp4 ... not many participant because not many new players, and more so being at mp4 at time of one HC
competion at mp3 .. some where planning and got it mostly alt , and when not many participant, some mp3 ys could get it even not planing to get it

now what was to bad abut that situation? HC was someting that everyone could get in time like wish point 60 days ...

but good hearts complains, to keep the "value of the head medal " for the principle that it should be "the best fighter" (when its all but that from a long time ... being online 24 hrs, help , hiding, or luck)
its not to be anymore

remove it for mp3 ....

then still more complains ... in fact same complains but now its an crisis ...

suggestions : remove it for mp4 ... or remove it for mp5 ,,,, or wait that 20 vote to have it ... or stop douing it... or stop it for 6 monts ....

my suggestion, is put it back like it was before remoring it for mp3

i dont see it as an crisis, ... just like an nice feature

like wish point at 60 days ...

yu old hands that got gold head when HC started, could always know that you had work for it and that its at that time mean what you experience

just acept that because the initial phase is done

now (before stoping mp3) its had become just an nice medal to get either and gold or an black one, and that everyone can expect to get one


So in conclusion , i ask that question [color=#ff0000]What is so wrong to have HC now as an nice medal that almost every player will get in time either gold or black?[/color]

Edited February 16, 2013 by Tom Pouce

[Leixer]

how about reset HC participants?i mean everybody can participate again?then if 4 years when this crisis come again, we can reset it back again?

[Mallos]

@Tom, the wrong part about heads contest nowadays is that it's being run without any participants. Essentially none of us can use certain spells during those few weeks, or however long, for no reason.

I would have to agree, resetting the participants seems to me like the best option for making the heads contest a viable contest again (without completely remaking it).

Only thing wrong with this I see is it could create a problem as credits are given to the winning parties, how much credits were intended to be given out? I don't know myself if it would affect too much.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Mallos

[ignnus]

my suggestions:

bring back the heads for mp3 since rewards are much more when a newbie gets the first place.

resetting players?I'm not sure what that means but regular teleports to GOE could work to prevent players hiding all the time.

if it's possible do not let same player participate in BHC and HC by using alts.Not sure how to track this.

otherwise HC seems fine as it is to me unless of course there is no players playing at all but this seems like a more general problem in MD since there is not enough players overall.

[Laphers]

I seem to remember suggesting something like this before but...

Why not have any heads that a player has when he/she logs out redistribute (equally or randomly) to online players. The number of heads can only increase as the contest continues. This can allow redistribution of the head ball but it shouldn't allow for the contest to continue for weeks because the heads can be recollected by active players.

Another idea for Stage 2 would be to move the Head Hill randomly (from a list of allowed Hills) after each count. It rewards the active player who will seek out the new location to score at the next count.

An option to limit crossover between HC and BHC would be to only allow BHC players to get heads from anyone who currently has a Heads medal

[No one]

Tomi, you missed the point. I want HC playable not removed with no reset for the old ones if possible.

My point still stands: each MP should hold its own HC.
A change that came to me lately it could be : make it like BHC is now: subscribe to it. If there are enough subscribers, it will be scheduled (lets say "next month" to allow preparations and to keep it at least 2 months apart).
Making HC more like BHC will limit the interference from normal players, from older players that already got the medal and ... will limit the distribution of heads.


And it will totally work with Laphers ideas too:
[quote name='Laphers' timestamp='1361004492' post='132732']
Why not have any heads that a player has when he/she logs out redistribute (equally or randomly) to online players.

Another idea for Stage 2 would be to move the Head Hill randomly (from a list of allowed Hills) after each count. It rewards the active player who will seek out the new location to score at the next count.

An option to limit crossover between HC and BHC would be to only allow BHC players to get heads from anyone who currently has a Heads medal
[/quote]
Nice ones Laphers : +10

Edited February 16, 2013 by No one

[Tal]

[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1360750909' post='132577']
Did you even try to gather heads? because the only time I found you with a bundle of heads was when i stole from you.

when talking about stats and tokens... have noticed what you have on defence?
[/quote]

I did, gather headballs.
most where lost during sleep, or taken by dd.
maybe next hc Ill make some screens of it for you.

and I know what my defence is when its not random.

[Kaya]

Some of the most fun time I've had in MD was during HCs, and I'm all but a fighter.

There are two problems with HC, first there aren't enough participants, second it takes to long and during it no spells can be cast.

The first problem can be split in two problems, there are more winners than there are new players, and we're out of players who haven't won HC yet. The first part has been pretty much solved by stopping HC or mp3 and reducing the amount of winners to only those who reach a certain score (although decreasing the maximum amount of winners to 3 might be good.) The second part however is a bit more difficult, unless someone is able to bring a few dozen of new players too MD we will have to get new participants from within our community. To do so I think a full reset would be fairest, but a partial reset might work as well, combined with a [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13071-discussion-about-hc-and-bhc/#entry123741"]ranking system like Fyrd proposed[/url] to be sure we won't be out of players again. It's either that or putting HC on a hold completely for a few years.

The second problem will be mostly solved when we have more participants, but can also be solved completely by removing the spell restrictions during HC. Spells nowadays are so common anyone can get them. If this isn't enough then they could be restricted only to players who have more than a certain amount of score/heads.

P.s. MP5 is now saver than it has been in a long time, so I recommend everyone who has been waiting to come up now, so you'll be able to get accustomed to it before a new danger arises.

[No one]

I like this topic but it was never considered for HC changes. There are some good ideas here.

 

This is a bump.

[Jester]

Um, just a thought, but could there be different types of heads? Bronze for MP3, Silver for MP4, Gold for MP5, Red for BHC?

 

 

Edit:

Rophs pointed out that two colors for heads should be plenty as different MPs can't attack each other (besides alliances which aren't a big deal) so perhaps just Red and Black heads.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Jester

[Rophs]

If we only reward the player who comes in first then players will battle over first place and not fear coming in second. There is still the idea of "oh I'll just win next time" that needs to be solved but as versatile and intelligent as the MD community is I'm sure we can find a solution. It's not as broken as the TC was back in the day.

[Burns]

If we only reward the player who comes in first then players will battle over first place and not fear coming in second. There is still the idea of "oh I'll just win next time" that needs to be solved but as versatile and intelligent as the MD community is I'm sure we can find a solution. It's not as broken as the TC was back in the day.

^Says it all.

When coming off second in the biggest combat competition MD has to offer on a regular basis is something you have to fear, the whole competition is meaningless and should be stopped, or reworked until number ten in the ranking can still be like "Yeah, i was in the top ten of HC recently, that's how you spell dedication."

[Rophs]

Is there any way to solve the "not fear coming in second" problem other than having only one rewarded winner and letting everyone else try next time? I personally think that it's a good solution but I'm ready for people to explain to me why that it's a dumb idea and not in the spirit of HC being unfair.

[Zyrxae]

Is there any way to solve the "not fear coming in second" problem other than having only one rewarded winner and letting everyone else try next time? I personally think that it's a good solution but I'm ready for people to explain to me why that it's a dumb idea and not in the spirit of HC being unfair.

People are less inclined to participate in what appears to be a single-winner contest that rewards only those able to stay online and caffeinated for a week straight than try out a friendly challenge that rewards both serious and casual players. Currently people wait their way out of MD entirely for their chance at the only trophy they consider worth fighting for.
 
Raise the rewards for second, third, and fourth place relative to the reward for first place, both credit- and stat-wise. (50/40/30/20 credits for 1st/2nd/3rd/4th, to toss something in?)

And might it be time for scaled stat rewards—the higher you place, the greater % of your current stats you gain as reward? That could lead people to hold out on competing until they have high enough stats, like how people wait to buy the permanent boosters in the shop—more incentive to train, but never quite feeling 'ready'.

 

Thoughts, maybe especially from those who haven't yet won?

[Burns]

Rewards get scaled down, a lot, and the first 5 all get the same. 10 creds, 5k ve and vp, and the normal medal. Gold heads gets abolished, due to being meaningless anyway. There was a time when a heads medal was an accomplishment, but those days are long gone. Keeping the 'contest' alive just for the sake of slowly giving everybody the medal is stupid. Lately, there's 3 people playing and 80 annoyed by it, because they can't play it because they a) already have a medal and aren't allowed to do a thing or b) don't want to play when they are not safely first.

[No one]

I agree with Burns. HC is mostly spotting your place in queue.

I remember when I won HC back in '08. So much battles and races. And I didn't even won a gold medal.

 

Yes, let abolish the gold medals for HC.

[Jester]

My ideas from reading this topic:

-Make two different types of Heads for normal and BHC

-Make the contest much less frequent than it is, so more new players who are interested get to participate at once

-Put a time limit on Heads so that if an MP level hasn't achieved the required amount of Heads within 24 hours of the first MP level reaching it, that MP level is taken out of the race and the MP levels that did reach it can continue without waiting forever

[Rophs]

If we make the HC happen once every month then rewarding one person would likely become very viable and we wouldn't have to tone down the rewards.

[DARK DEMON]

Once a month? You know how painful HC if for those not participating (and for those participating in many occasions) and how long it lasts?

 

The last update caused HC to be held even less times per year than before, and now I suggest only once a year would be enough, but at a very carefully chosen time (when activity is highest).

Edited July 16, 2013 by DARK DEMON

[dst]

Once a month? You know how painful HC if for those not participating (and for those participating in many occasions) and how long it lasts?

 

You know that this is how HC was run in the past?