Grido

I believe I acted in the best way I could given the knowledge at hand. Would I act differently given what I know now? Probably. Also;[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317427462' post='93004'] As for the discussions, I merely intended to keep this thread free of arguments about whether or not Grido was right or wrong in the Phantom or dst case, because while they are relevant to the topic, they invite flame wars, derailments and general unhappiness that you can go to their respective threads to receive. [/quote]?

The price gained from them would be variable. The money gained from the sale would have to go to the account with the creatures on them - simple sale principle, have the creatures, get the coins. I'm pretty sure that item trades between alts is now restricted, meaning you'd then be unable to send the coins from your old account onto your current one. You're still welcome to sell them, you just might not be able to profit from it on your new account.

Probably yes, but you haven't actually stated it anywhere. So if I were limited, I'd have to say "Yes".

Stopping paypal payments you do through your paypal interface - quite simple. If you want to talk about the medal, pretty sure only council/Mur can do that, yeah

Hasn't actually been 7 days, but I happen to need the space, so yeah, come find me at PC please

I am asking how I might change your opinion, you are answering if I make an honest attempt at it. That does not actually answer my question. So I will repeat, I would like to change your opinion of me, I am willing to make an honest attempt at it, but what can I actually do to change your opinion?

And is this on a clickable, using dice, or...? Could you tell me the system used for roulette, vague if you like, I'm curious how you're doing it.

The question was with double meaning Pip, how might I change it?

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317338792' post='92893'] ...but if the outcome agrees with my opinion, then I will proceed to create another thread where a discussion of what action should be taken can commence.[/quote] [quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317368764' post='92920'] Passant: As I said in the initial post, if the outcome agrees with my opinion, then I will begin a discussion of punishment, and if not, I will simply give it time.[/quote]

I had, I was going to bring it up when I spoke to her.

Pip, ""As a personal note, no matter what the outcome of the poll is, my opinion will not change"" just to be clear for myself, regardless the outcome of the poll, you still think I'm in the "No" category of the poll? Is there a way for that opinion to be changed by me, or will it remain that way regardless? Hedge/CotS, There has been no conversation between us regarding this - As far as I recall, anyway. I would be open to finding out how he thinks I'm doing a bad job and if possible try to alter that opinion, though from his responses I would think he does not wish for this. SilverBlades, ""Personal? He is horrible all around.... He has never done anything to me..."" ... CotS, that'd be Burns saying it in an earlier post BP, if you could clarify the conflict of interest you mention? Do you mean friendship, or something else? And in reference to dst, or another situation?

2_0x0_1 Borders

Phantom, I do apologise, sincerely, for not sending you a message or something letting you know. As I have previously stated I did look for you online but you were absent, which was unfortunate. Personally I felt it would have been impersonal and dispassionate to send you a message stating things to which you wouldn't be able to respond to anyway - evidently you feel otherwise, so I apologise for that. An exploit is you doing something not normally allowed by the game interface (or there abouts, not a full definition). Age of it doesn't matter, nor does how well known it is, the reason it's so well known is because people keep spreading it around like they shouldn't be. The inaccessible section doesn't rather imply you shouldn't be there at all? I will speak about this with you when we can. --- Ren, that may be the case, but it was never what this thread was about, I believe Pip opened a new thread to talk about me - I haven't read it yet though. --- With the opening of the thread to [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10679-grido/"]discuss me and my actions[/url], along with Phantom responding to this thread, I would think maybe that there is no need for further posts from anyone - except perhaps Phantom herself if she chooses.

Seig, The objective nature of the rule means that it would take a few people to discuss the intricacies of it, and the effects of her actions. In other words, it's not for me to judge on the harassment front there was a punishment for that announced though. My private punishment is completely separate from this and was for the use of the chat ban item. --- Pip, in a dictionary, don't be dense. Actually yes, on the info for applying to LHO page on the attic cord it states under requirements; "A thorough knowledge of the game and its rules." Bugs and exploits would fall into this category. I would expect them to be aware of such, so I tend not to ask them. I didn't say that, you misread me. Well it's a bad comparison. You seem to misunderstand me. You asked for an official reference, I gave you one. LHOs are meant to realise what bugs and exploits are, and not to sell them. And now you ignore my inclusion of LHOs in the people I'd listen to about stepping down - I'd personally say they have less power than me, but because of my role in relation to them, if they think I've been acting wrongly I would listen to them. I was replying to your comment about your hate page... --- Curi, to be as polite as possible, what the hell do the other cases have to do with this? I've responded patiently to the comments about dst, fine she's an LHO, she did something wrong, etc etc. But now you're bringing other people into this that really have nothing at all to do with Phantom Orchid. This thread is NOT about dst, it's about Phantom Orchid. I'm sorry, but please shut up. My dealing with Phantom Orchid would be the same had it been any other LHO. My dealing with dst (the punishment) would have been the same had it been any other LHO, the thread by seig said he didn't need to know what it was, so I didn't say. Do not think to know me or how my mind works, from your post, you clearly do not. Dst's situation had, and has, nothing to do with Phantom Orchid's.

1_-2x-1_2 The Cube 1_-1x-2_1 A Battle

Tarq, It is very clear that people have an issue with dst, if you want her demoted from LHO, you also want BFH, and Shadowseeker demoted - they've also been to jail and remained as LHO for the duration of it. The two offences you list dst as having committed are fairly objective, the causes for this by the player are what the player is like (generally), their personality and such. She has had a cumulative sentence from Mur, is it being suggested that I don't allow her to be an LHO because of her personality, because of who she is? Different crimes or rule breaks receive different punishment, spreading an exploit (known or not) is a worse one than what dst did. There are certain things LHOs are expected to know, Phantom Orchid either didn't know what an exploit was, or knowingly sold one - if statements in this thread are to be believed then she wasn't aware, either way, a player should learn what an exploit is, or that they shouldn't sell them, before becoming an LHO. When I accept applications from anyone (MP4+), and happily discuss through things to improve their abilities as an LHO, suggest to them to talk to LHOs about how they're performing so that they can receive constructive criticism, when I ask all the LHOs opinions on future LHOs before accepting or turning down an application - I'm being corrupt and favoured towards the elite? --- Duxie, the hierarchy of LHO is Me at the top, then the other LHOs on equal footing with each other, they have different skills and knowledge sets so I'd refer players in certain directions rather than generally if need be, they all have the same core knowledge though. The background to it isn't really recorded far as I know (someone point me if it is, I'd like to read), but Jonn was the first Inquisitor, I believe he picked the title, Mur making him in charge of the LHOs - I wasn't active over that period so I can't really explain better. I then took over from him by his and Mur's agreement when Jonn decided to leave MD. Having a single figure in charge means there is one person Mur can contact if something needs to be done, and also, like you say so it works as intended. MD isn't a democracy, Mur has said it many times, the LHO system isn't either, I'm a dictator, I'm just generally a nice one. --- Pip, I never said LHOs were bug testers, they don't test bugs, but if they see one, they should know it's a bug, report it to someone who ~is~ a bug tester/council so that it can be tested. I think you missed the part where I said I'd punished her? The announce I posted was after the incident, just trying to put a thought of Mur, that's all. I'm also pretty sure that dst didn't use it for "fun" but in retaliation. I'm really not at all sure what relationship the instance has with banning someone for teleporting me to tunnel of war - it has nothing to do with anything. But for the record, no I wouldn't ban someone for that. I wasn't so much comparing the events of IaB and Phantom Orchid, I was stating where it was written, like you asked me to provide - An example of where Mur has stated selling them is against the rules. The references you've made in your hate page against me (and this is getting very offtopic, up to another mod if they want to do anything) are mainly things you disagree with me on, not actually negative things I've done. I would like to ask what you would ask me to do (other than stepping down - I won't unless Mur/Council/LHOs think I'm doing a bad job at it) that would give you a reason to believe it's not true. --- BP, I am VERY fortunate to be in the position I am, I'm well aware of this. As for how I collected the evidence (you seem to have completely removed that in the edit of your previous post, and I forgot to say it), a player informed me of a PM conversation they were havng with Lashtal where the details were listed. As Phantom Orchid was an LHO at the time they decided to tell me so that I was aware, they then screenshotted the message conversation for me so that I had a copy of it. I had hoped that Phantom would be online to talk to at the time (to prepare her for what I was about to do), but she was not and I felt I should act right away. Since this topic was opened, I have received two other people asking me if it was them involved. One of which has confirmed that the same exploit was sold to them, and the other I have been informed through other sources that the same exploit was sold to them as well - this person has not confirmed with me, but did start an initial conversation. I think that's it in full, I'll add other information if I recall anything. --- Amo, this is why I asked her to contact me about how she found out, if the person who sold/gave it to her was also unaware of the description of an exploit, and also if she actually asked anyone if it was allowed. It is unfortunate that she was not online when I was informed of all this, as I said earlier, I would have spoken to her to prepare her for what I was going to do. Her side of the story would not have affected my judgement, I may have just added a paragraph into the initial post stating she wasn't aware it was an exploit. She still acted how she did, ignorance of rules doesn't exempt you from them. If you refer to dst's harrassment etc, what Phantom did was worse by way of rule breaking. ---

I'd point out the cumulative punishment thing wasn't me, that was Mur I think. I am perfectly answerable for my actions, I haven't said it for a while, but it stands as true that if anyone has issues with what I do, or how I do them you are welcome to message the council, or Mur. Like Pip has kindly referenced in his Hate Page in game (fun reading, he's at Tranquil Plains), the Backlash RO post. I do not have to post punishments, there is nothing saying I have to, nowhere, nor have I ever been told (to my memory) that I should. There are countless players I ban that you hear nothing about, countless more I punish in other ways befitting what they've done - I never have, and never will post about them all. Yes, I have conflicts of interest, so does every other player that has lived or will lived. [will finish this later if required]

First clearing up the dst incident, the actions she undertook were within the rules of the game, yes she annoyed people, yes she used the item to silence seig (it was him, right?). She annoys a lot of people, a lot of people would probably go as far as saying they hated her. What she did whilst borderline was within the rules of the game, though she did receive a private punishment, she has since also been punished by Mur for her cumulative behaviour - I would expect this to happen again for a longer period of time if she continues to act similarly. Since the event there has even been an announcement posted; ""[color=#CCCCCC]Ann. 2020 - [2011-09-21 17:25:32 - Stage 11][/color] ...Like with any other item or ability, you are free to use it as you wish when you wish."" But I reiterate, there was a private punishment. It was not ignored. Before getting further into this, I would point out that whilst I may not put her in the "friends" category (due to not sharing much personal information with her, or chatting regularly), I would certainly consider myself to be friendly with her, I have no personal negativity, or grudge against her of any sort, other than the action that caused the demotion. The distinction between dst and Phantom Orchid is that selling bugs and exploits is one of the many unwritten rules, one of the most known ones as well. An LHO is an elevated position within the game, they are given spells, and authority to guide new players. In my opinion the position of an LHO has a trust-able image, and also a knowledgeable one - they should be aware of selling bugs and exploits being against the rules, and also how to recognise what one is. I reference [u][url="http://magicduel.com/players/I%20am%20Bored"]IaB's Profile[/url][/u] - where Mur has edited into his Game Mechanics shop that it's closed. I'm sure there's a clearer example of Mur saying it, but I can't currently find one. I am classing this not really as a precedent, because it was in place anyway, so essentially a re-precedent. Making sure people know that this behaviour is not accepted by myself - certainly not by those wanting to be LHOs. As has been referenced already, "LHOs should know better". I would like to clarify for Tarquinus, I did not say her offence was minor, I said that the exploit/bug was. Selling bugs and exploits is not a minor offence, but due to my doing this, I personally am taking no other action, if Mur or the council decide otherwise that is up to them. Lash, whilst you may not consider you have been, I know what it is, what it's worth, and you were ripped off. I repeat that the role of an LHO expects that she should realise an exploit when seen.

"Grab them!" would be more appropriate, rather than determining an account's gender which really shouldn't matter. The term "him" (so I've been informed recently) in some countries refers to a person regardless of gender, in English however it refers to the male gender. "them" would be considered gender-neutral.

I have tonight been informed of something which saddens me. In the steps leading up to Phantom Orchid being promoted to LHO (Promoted 18-Sep-2011) she sold an exploit to a player (for a rip-off price as well) - this happened in the period of time between my enquiring opinions from current LHOs for the basis of her promotion, and the act of promoting itself. The exploit/bug itself isn't overly serious, it's been known about for a while and not so much abusable, the issue stands that she was at the time trying out to be an LHO, and then became one. Selling bugs or exploits, of any sort, is NOT lho behaviour. She has now been demoted after the short period of 9 days as an LHO. She will not have the opportunity to become an LHO for a period of at least 1 year from this date and should express a cease of any such actions from now onwards. I would ask her to privately tell me how she found out about it in the first place - if clarification on what exploit and the player I'm referring to is needed(I really hope not), then I can provide such. It should be noted that I have not banned her, however this does not necessarily mean that Mur of the council will not decide otherwise. The exploit/bug is not to be listed here, that is to prevent enquiring minds looking for how to do it. The player involved is not to be listed here, unless they choose to make themselves public.

Aramor CTC[b]732146[/b]LIZIH37MDC Stored Heat 626 Age 79 Tokens NONE Aramor CTC[b]732147[/b]ATKRA47MDC Stored Heat 590 Age 79 Tokens NONE [s]Barren Soul[/s] [s]CTC[b]56517[/b]ATKRY63MDC[/s] [s]Stored Heat ??[/s] [s]Age 1306[/s] [s]Tokens NONE[/s] [s][color=#ff0000]10sc - Junior[/color][/s] Barron Soul CTC[b]732149[/b]GUZIC75MDC Stored Heat 5995 Age 79 Tokens NONE Elemental CTC[b]738655[/b]JORUK57MDC Stored Heat 0 Age 41 Tokens NONE Heretic Archer CTC[b]738658[/b]LISHX53MDC Stored Heat 0 Age 41 Tokens Emeral Glare Heretic Archer CTC[b]738659[/b]ARNAC23MDC Stored Heat 0 Age 41 Tokens Black Diamonds Heretic Archer CTC[b]738660[/b]SUTET31MDC Stored Heat 0 Age 41 Tokens NONE Bidding ends in 7 days, at the time of this post - please don't snipe.

Happy Birthday Google, You can have the day off work from me if you like?

Poll added (I presume that's fine with you Katt, apologies if it isn't) - the order of LHOs is directly from the interface I have for promotion/demotion, no idea why it's that order, but I appear to be top of it

Do you consider Gold/Silver coin Notes/Coupons to be of equal or higher value to their coin counterparts?

I've not seen a locate quite as "impressive" as that, but yeah, the bug still isn't fixed