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Burns
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Posts posted by Burns
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Thanks for digging it up, i remembered there was something, but couldn't find it. Merged.
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Gender has been brought up before, maybe you'll want to add to this discussion: http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/9110-avatar-at-fight-screen/
And story mode/first steps definitely needs improvement, and has done so for a long, long time: http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/5680-storymode-change/
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@ Azrafar, we've already been in touch, i'll get back to you once i get around to activate my WPs. You'll likely receive it later today :)
To everyone else, please make sure to use the reputation system on the participants, i'll use this 'community rating' as part of the WP rating when people request the WP reward. Azrafar looks like a big, fat 8 right now :D
Other than that, Mur's rules still stand, refer to the initial post to see what you need to participate.
Looking forward to your entries :)
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Visually upgraded and rephrased the rules in the main post.
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Removed some spam and made a split for mechanical implications of death http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15904-consequences-and-mechanics-of-death-plus-possible-adjustments
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The code in nim's quests sucked, save for the torch game darkraptor wrote :))
And it was a little bit of mutli-pathed, but not enough to call it divergent quest paths. Some of the games had an internal multi-path, where some ways lead to the solution and some to a dead end, but the 'story' was only one way up until the very end where you could pick between 2-3 different outcomes. All the rest was an illusion, you just got a slightly altered text every now and then, and when you picked a path that you shouldn't take, you got either a dead end or looped back into selecting the path, much like the good old 'did you understand everything, can we move one? yes/no' in pretty much every tutorial ever.
I'm not saying that illusions are a bad thing, you obviously enjoyed the quest, but there was never a point where you could actively influence what happens next in the story (except for burning something you needed, then you got kicked form the quest :P). It's just so much work to write a good story, Nim spent weeks on the last quest and my text-compilation is about 20 pages long, if you want that sort of epic quest with a bunch of divergent ways, you have to get a real story-team to work it all out.
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Because you designed the East in a spiral. The original map uses largely rectangles and corners in the basic design, and it made sense to use GoE as 0x0 and develop the grid from there.
East is a complete change of concept, it's not a grid any more, but a spiral, and to make sure we get the hint you stopped to use the coords system used in the mainlands and used names instead.
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There is actually, I implemented a load of activity monitors. I can even "score" you.
Can you post those scores? Or give us access in some other way, maybe in the side bar next to active days? :D
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This is a quest thread, not a discussion. Find your posts here: http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15888-the-hidden-secrets-of-the-maze
- DARK DEMON and Azrafar
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Quite literally nobody wanted to have a rating, yes. And the few quests we tested rating on, we got 2-3 responses. It was a good idea, but unfortunately didn't work out properly.
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Because this will likely create an absurd amount of posts, moved to off-topic. Left a link in quests and contests so you can find it more easily.
- Kyphis the Bard and Eon
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If you come up with a quest and run into an issue that you can't overcome, in a mechanical sense, like you want to use a clickable item but have no coding ability, it's always a good idea to see if someone else can do it for you. You'll usually find people who have stopped participating in quests and are available to help you set up yours. This goes for all parts of the game, not just clickies, but also pretty much every admin feature you don't have.
- Kyphis the Bard, lashtal, No one and 1 other
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Cleaned up and split, see http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15861-how-to-make-a-quest/
It seems to me that you talk about admin-powers. Of course it makes questing simpler when you have admin-stuff to use as you like, but you can always go to the people who have those things and make them set up stuff.
It's like a chain: Newbies have nothing but ideas, and when they want extra promotion, they find somebody with a q-doc. When somebody with a q-doc needs a clicky for a quest, they find a clicky-writer. If people with clickies need a portal for their quest, they go to people who can make thier portals. You can progress upwards in the chain to a certain point, and you can make an argument that it's time for the portal part of the chain to become more available (as q-docs and clickies did over time), but i don't think that time is now.
- dst, Kyphis the Bard, No one and 2 others
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Vampire
Soulweaver http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/745
Also, i might like the nutcracker, if it has the right id. Yes, i'm one of those perculiar people who need their collections in a specific order to be valuable.
606k - 610k would be great.
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This looks very attractive and seems the type of thing many people would agree to at first glance, but really when it comes into practice, 90% people are against this. Take the most recent example of me discussing Laby stuff with Mur being highly discouraged by the community, and all kings of wrong assumptions being made.
If you actually read what you quoted, you'd find that what i talked about it unrelated to anything that is currently happening, because Mur doesn't do that anymore. I should know, i've been the drachorn guy for ages now, and still don't know where to go with them big-picture-wise.
It wouldn't matter how you got to your stuff, if by making a quest so remarkably good that everyone wants to give you something cool, or by having an idea so brilliant that council wants to support you, or by telling Mur what he wants to hear, it doesn't matter, not when your powers aren't for life anymore. Nobody cares where you got your stuff from, what matters is if you can handle it. And if you can't, no big deal, you get fired and the next guy gets a shot.
As it is, all powers and roles and stuff are for life, regardless of how well you do. That's why it's unacceptable to have an inactive illusionist, because as long as Fang lives, there won't be another illusionist. Who here still knows Raven personally? Yeah, that guy was the illusionist before Fang, and he had to fall out of grace 3 times and be gone for 3 years before Fang got his chance. That's also why people don't want you to have lab-citizenship before showing that you can handle it, because once you have it, even if you turn out to be completely uncapable of doing anything sensible with your citizenship, you will never, ever lose it again, and there will very likely not be another player getting that chance for the next 2 years.
As for your last paragraph, you know it won't work mech-wise.
You've not seen what can be done in a proper war, one that is driven by story rather than mechanics. The Shade War worked pretty much before killing was invented. People ran around and stabbed each other in the back, and the guy who got stabbed actually died, long before there were any items at all. Big C got captured by the shades, long before there were spells that would bind him. He just played along, and got locked up.
I feel the need to elaborate that point some more, thus edit:
Imagine if i actually had the task to smuggle a drachorn egg past Azull. From a pure mechanical point, that takes me about 3 seconds: Grab an egg, teleport to necro, and type in chat 'Haha, i win! Suck it, Necros!'
Does that sound like it fulfills the task? Mechanically, maybe. To add something to the game, not so much. To get that task done, i'd need to find spies who can tell me when their guard is the lowest, someone who can open a way for me (and no, probably not the howling gate, too many guards there), possibly hire MB to distract them. I'd have to sneak in like Frodo, not knock at the front gates like Aragorn. Though i'd probably find myself an Aragorn for distraction.
And now imagine that 3-5 people have such a task at the same time. It's like playing Risk: I want to get my egg into Necro, Grido wants to overthrow Azull, Mya tries to steal an angien and Peace wants to sacifice a citizen of the East at Path Keeper. And we all sort of know what the others are up to, if we have good connections, and try to make use of their actions to get our own game along. That's where you get a real plot, like the Shade War.
I accept your point about 'finding it yourself', but if we all go around and find it ourselves, you end up with a story like that: phantasm used dagger on dst, dst used revive. The End.
- Ary Endleg, Kyphis the Bard and Myth
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Then go back to the way it was, and make them RPCs. Make them god-like and untouchable and powerful, but in turn: Hold them accountable for their powers, make them bloody HOSTAGES of their powers!
Pick people and give them fancy stuff. We all enjoy to see fancy stuff in action, most of it is pretty cool after all. But also give them a specific task!
Give them pieces of information nobody else has, but not general stuff. If you pick a shade whisperer, tell them something about the shades not even the king of necro knows, if you pick an illusionist, give them background on illusions, and so on. Tell them where their story is heading, and MAKE THEM MAKE IT HAPPEN! As drachorn guy, i'd love to know exactly what the drachorns can and cannot do in the future, but i can't write my own story for them because their story already exists, at least in your mind, and i simply don't know it. Can i write a story-line where the drachorns eat the tiny men and ravage Golemus? Probably not, but even that might be possible. Can i make a drachorn fly off and hide in loreroot, or do they dislike the woods? I simply don't know, and even as drachorn guy i'm not in a position to write such attributes myself.
ANYONE who gets something nice from you should also have a clear task assigned to it, like Eon and dst, as examples. You gave them fancy stuff (heads control and special access), and a task to fulfill (run contests with heads and spy on people). This is what MD needs more of, not random people running around with a bunch of powers, who all 'have something special' but no way to develop the things they have, because they only have powers, but no reasons.
And if they fail to deliver, FIRE THEM! If you set someone the task to lead an expedition to the east and find out what's behind the dry water temple, and they don't get anything done within 6 months, take away their east loyalty. If you create a role like Braiton again (drachorn mutations, for those who don't remember, which is now in the wish shop) and they don't manage to create a story about it, take it away again! YOU are still the only one who knows the big picture, use your advantages and connect the random powers you throw out to fitting tasks that drive the game forward. Give them additional informations and let them use it as they see fit, THIS can make a role happen.
You might think that we, as the stupid mob we are, dislike people like Fang because you give them something cool and we are jealous. Some might be, granted, but the big majority here likes to see people do something cool and awesome. But we can't respect an illusionist who talks about illusions and every second word is straight up wrong. When you give him illusions, you also need to give him some informations about illusions that are NEW, and make him present them in one way or another. He can do lectures, or talk to people, or make a quest, the only thing that he mustn't do is keep it from the public. And if he fails to do so, take away his toys again. That's not a punishment of any kind, it just happens that the role and the person didn't fit together in the end.
YOU can use those randomly assigned powers to SHAPE the story. You can even give people completely different tasks and just see what happens: Tell me, as drachorn guy, to take an egg from the lair and smuggle it into Necro's Graveyard, and tell Azull, as king of Necro, that there is only one important thing about his reign, that he must never allow a drachorn egg to pass the howling gates, at all. Or kick it up a notch, and tell Grido, as king of Golemus, that you expect him to invade Necrovion within 3 months, AND let Azull know that an invasion is coming, but not which army is heading at him. And if i don't manage to do anything in regard to that egg, fire me! And if Azull doesn't manage to put up a fight when Grido comes, fire him!
- Myth, Kyphis the Bard, everyone and 14 others
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PLayer Name: Burns
PLayer ID no.: 53832
Strongest feeling experienced in the past one week concerning MD and its happenings: 'Face-Palm', but 'Head-Desk' is a close second
Do you know what PMS means? (yesor no)
Have you watched the movie Mean Girls? (yesor no)
I give consent to Nimrodel to use me any way she likes.
I am very well aware regarding the ethics concerned in human and animal trials and i promise to abide by the rules. -
Before you go on, consider this:
Whenever i would want to teleport somebody, all i need to do is log off after casting to stop your resistance measures. If at all, you'd need to make teleport a sort of channel ability, where everyone goes into limbo until the spell is through, and it fails if the guy casting is 'interrupted' while at it. Which obviously defeats the point of teleport as a 'swift' method of moving, because if i (as target) know that i'll be moved in an undesireable manner, maybe while i run away from someone for whatever reason, i'll be the one logging off to avoid the consequences, and start running again in 2 hours.
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It wouldn't have to be a month of the effect, maybe a week would do for the shared book as well. And obviously it would need a cooldown too, maybe it could just work once per re-group.
As to hoarding, it would be hard to constantly grab an item that appears at 4 different locations at once, wouldn't it? And it doesn't even do anything, like the candy boxes or tea kettles. I doubt people would go out of their way to get an item that has no use to them.
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Mod power abuse incoming: I'll hit the pause-button here, probably send a few PMs, and MAYBE unlock the thread in an hour.
The hour is through, pause is over. Try to keep it civilized.
- Prince Marvolo, Muratus del Mur, Ungod and 4 others
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It'd need some live test to see if 2 drachs 2 angiens 2 morphs does turn into a new god-like ritual, of if something new shows up that would compete with that.
My intention when working out those things was to reduce the front-up damages in rituals, and that definitely is the case. Whichever way you look at it, all the top things are cut by 1/3rd if you reduce their limits. Drachorns and Archers by having 1 less boost, angiens by simply being 1 less on the field.
And you also need to remember that i'm not the combat balancer, i'm just the drachorn master. I've worked out what changes i found viable in regard to the drachorns, because i had reasonable odds to turn them into a reality. If you want to theory-craft on a larger scale, you can put everything into doubt, and come up with things like reduced stat-scalings in all rituals or an aura-removing aura or anything else you might imagine.
- Ary Endleg and Azthor
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Alliance Leadership
in Questions and Answers
Posted
Removed almost half the thread. Discuss the points raised, or don't discuss at all. Chewie requested this thread to be made, and i'll remove whatever isn't adding to the points.
For reference, snipped out the bits where we argued about alliances at the meeting:
[log="parts of chat log"]
[21/11/14 21:53] *Burns*:Better system for ally leadership maybe?
[21/11/14 21:53] Aeoshattr: (I can just imagine someone having 20kg of cement dumped on them. "Here, take this")
[21/11/14 21:54] *Burns*:A more permanent base than loyalty score would be nice, imo.
[21/11/14 21:54] Dark Demon:I agree
[21/11/14 21:54] Rophs:Maybe using something similar to the followers system for ally leadership
[21/11/14 21:54] Aeoshattr:That would probably make take-overs more difficult
[21/11/14 21:55] Dark Demon:How difficult is a takeover in the current scenario, technically?It just takes one invite.
[21/11/14 21:55] No one:ok, understandable
[21/11/14 21:55] Rophs:You also need a loyalty bomb
[21/11/14 21:56] *Chewett*:There was a proposal that I suggested a while ago to the KC
[21/11/14 21:56] *Chewett*:never really got a reply back
[21/11/14 21:56] Rophs:And getting that one invite can often be difficult (eg if the ally has full slots)
[21/11/14 21:56] Dark Demon:Yes it can Rophs, I am not talking about how you get an invite
[21/11/14 21:56] Aeoshattr:Though I do find Rophs' follower system promising for this
[21/11/14 21:56] No one:KC ? Knator Commandor ?
[21/11/14 21:56] Azull:hang on..you suggested a proposal?
[21/11/14 21:56] *Burns*:Kings council
[21/11/14 21:56] Azull:please remind me
[21/11/14 21:56] *Chewett*:Yeah, it could have been quite a while ago
[21/11/14 21:57] No one:oh [:)]
[21/11/14 21:57] Dark Demon:I'm just speaking in technical terms. Just one invite is enough of the 'actions' that are required to take over.
[21/11/14 21:57] Azull:We have been discussing this on and off. But so far no really viable ideas.
[21/11/14 21:57] Azull:If I recall correctly
[21/11/14 21:57] *Chewett*:There was a proposal to change how the alliances were formed
[21/11/14 21:58] *Chewett*:It started on classifying the alliances
[21/11/14 21:58] *Chewett*:which was a public discussion
[21/11/14 21:58] *Chewett*:Then it followed with then changing the alliance system based onn each type of alliance
[21/11/14 21:59] *Chewett*:In the end there wasnt enough alliances or interest to warrent me working on it
[21/11/14 22:00] Azull:Yes we discussed those things, but I don't remember actual suggested changes.
[21/11/14 22:00] Rophs:You mentioned in the topic about changing principles something about the totemizer
[21/11/14 22:00] Azull:not by kc or you
[21/11/14 22:00] *Burns*:Oh, and not strictly game development, the mod doc thing still needs to be done.
[21/11/14 22:00] Azull:did I forget or miss something?
[21/11/14 22:00] *Chewett*:The plan was to have a hiearchy system in some role based alliances
[21/11/14 22:00] Dark Demon:Currently addressing issues that have no/little complaints instead of obvious bugs or things people generally complain about does not really make sense
[21/11/14 22:01] *Chewett*:Then go away.
[21/11/14 22:01] *Grido*:Bugs go to bug forum (or elsewhere as appropriate) and then get redmined, no real need totalk about them here
[21/11/14 22:01] *Burns*:Bugs seldomly need discussion. They get fixed when possible, but that's not a decision that needs taking.
[21/11/14 22:01] *Chewett*:You have already banned me from speaking to you, Dont complain when I dont care to be interested in your problems DD.
[21/11/14 22:01] :Serenity Snow raises eyebrow
[21/11/14 22:02] Rophs:How will the totemizer affect principles? [Forum link]
[21/11/14 22:02] Serenity Snow:....
[21/11/14 22:02] Dark Demon:I am not talking about my problems. And yes, I'm aware of bugs and how they are to be dealt with. Replace 'bugs' with 'issues' please.
[21/11/14 22:02] *Chewett*:Seriously DD, you really annoy me.
[21/11/14 22:02] Serenity Snow:let's be nice
[21/11/14 22:03] Dark Demon:Okay, but I will stay here and I have a right to talk. You all can ignore everything I'm saying, if you like.
[21/11/14 22:03] No one:@chew: can I beg for a chat ban please
[21/11/14 22:03] *Chewett*:So, To focus on the different alliance types.
[21/11/14 22:03] No one:just 1 use
[21/11/14 22:03] :[Spell] kero kero Dark Demon
[21/11/14 22:03] Dark Demon: quaaaaaaaaac
[21/11/14 22:03] Dark Demon: kwaaak
[21/11/14 22:03] *Chewett*:Say you had a "role based" alliance.
[21/11/14 22:04] *Chewett*:One person would be denoted as a leader
[21/11/14 22:04] *Chewett*:To "beat" him you then would need to get approval from others below
[21/11/14 22:04] *Chewett*:Having some form of hiarchy
[21/11/14 22:04] Aeoshattr:^
[21/11/14 22:04] *Burns*:Role allies have a history of being returned even after takeovers, i think the ones that need work are the big ones
[21/11/14 22:04] Eon:.
[21/11/14 22:04] Rophs:The followers system would be a nice way to do that
[21/11/14 22:05] No one:then it would make the alliance ... un-takable
[21/11/14 22:05] *Chewett*:Maybe by your takeover standards.
[21/11/14 22:05] Aeoshattr:Not necessarily. I think Rophs' idea can work
[21/11/14 22:05] Aeoshattr:You have to bribe and convince people to no longer follow the leader
[21/11/14 22:05] Rophs:It would beharder to take, you'd need to corrupt more than one person
[21/11/14 22:05] Rophs:You'd also need to corrupt more people to takeover a larger ally
[21/11/14 22:05] Serenity Snow:Even if it's based around followers, all someone who wants to take it over needs to do is make those within follow them more or less.
[21/11/14 22:05] *Burns*:the 4 main land allies, where you just go in, get the loyalty, and disband them
[21/11/14 22:06] Aeoshattr:But also, there would be no reason to return the role alliance to the former leader then
[21/11/14 22:06] *Sunfire*:infiltration and mass confusion, much harder
[21/11/14 22:06] Dark Demon: kwaaaaaaak
[21/11/14 22:06] Aeoshattr:If people no longer follow the leader... then he/she no longer is the leader
[21/11/14 22:06] Serenity Snow:It is like with an real group, even owners of big businesses can lose their business if one works hard enough at trying to take it over.
[21/11/14 22:06] Rophs:Much more fitting of a way to takeover an RP ally
[21/11/14 22:07] : Eon throws the dice and gets 7
[21/11/14 22:07] Aeoshattr:And you can counter the difficulty by limiting the number of people in a RP alliance
[21/11/14 22:07] Dark Demon: kwaaaaak
[21/11/14 22:07] Aeoshattr:Say... 5 people as opposed to 50 or w/e in a main land ally
[21/11/14 22:08] Rophs:It's 5 people for resource allys iirc
[21/11/14 22:08] Rophs:Fusioneers was 5
[21/11/14 22:08] No one:and ... will you still need to get into that alliance to take it over ?
[21/11/14 22:08] Aeoshattr:Hmm
[21/11/14 22:09] Dark Demon: oac
[21/11/14 22:09] Aeoshattr:I don't think it should require that, No One
[21/11/14 22:09] Aeoshattr:But I'm not sure how it could work otherwise
[21/11/14 22:09] Aeoshattr:Oh actually
[21/11/14 22:09] No one:or you need just to convince others to throw away their leader ?
[21/11/14 22:09] Rophs:You could get person on inside to do the takeover for you and then pass you the alliance
[21/11/14 22:09] Aeoshattr:Maybe if you aren't in the alliance when you get its members to follow you, it's disbanded
[21/11/14 22:09] Aeoshattr:If you are in, then you're the new leader
[21/11/14 22:09] *Burns*:If you get the guys in the ally to follow you without being in, why not?
[21/11/14 22:09] Dark Demon: ribbbit
[21/11/14 22:10] No one:that's bull
[21/11/14 22:10] No one:nobody wants to disband alliances
[21/11/14 22:10] No one:on the contrary, we need more alliances
[21/11/14 22:10] *Chewett*:I disagree
[21/11/14 22:10] No one:yes, we don't need badges
[21/11/14 22:10] *Burns*:We have more allies than players [:P]
[21/11/14 22:10] Rophs:There was an ally disbanded not too long ago
[21/11/14 22:10] Dark Demon: oaac
[21/11/14 22:10] Rophs:And another one that was more or less "closed off"
[21/11/14 22:11] No one:@R: not really
[21/11/14 22:11] Rophs:Fusioneers was disbanded and Kelle'tha Order was "closed off".
[21/11/14 22:11] No one:yes, Burns, we have that situation, but ... there are just badges without roles
[21/11/14 22:11] *Sunfire*:alliances should get a common goal again, not just something for combat
[21/11/14 22:12] Aeoshattr:Ok so how about this: whomever has the most people in an alliance follow them is granted leadership of the alliance. I.E if you are not in but most of its members follow you, you get slapped with a
[21/11/14 22:12] Aeoshattr:badge
[21/11/14 22:12] Aeoshattr:Then you decide what you want to do with the alliance.
[21/11/14 22:12] Aeoshattr:So then you wouldn't need to actually have the badge to take over
[21/11/14 22:12] Dark Demon:Why can't an alliance have members from different lands in it, as long as they follow the same purpose? (not military, ofc)
[21/11/14 22:13] Aeoshattr:And thus it could be done more sneakily
[21/11/14 22:13] *Burns*:Yeah, something like that.
[21/11/14 22:13] Serenity Snow:Personally I think that's how alliances should work, I realize this isn't other games but that tends to be how it works in other games. Alliance is ran by those elected more or less to run them.
[21/11/14 22:14] *Burns*:Allies should stay tied to a land imo.
[21/11/14 22:14] Rophs:@DD so we could have (example) an Alliance with the goal of going West with people form different lands? That sounds like something that would be better done with group tags
[21/11/14 22:14] No one:hmm, so how do you want to do that ? weekly voting ?
[21/11/14 22:14] Aeoshattr:@Serenity: Yeah, but not all alliances here are democratic
[21/11/14 22:14] *Sunfire*:this isnt like any other game [:D]
[21/11/14 22:14] Aeoshattr:No. Something like a mentor system
[21/11/14 22:14] Aeoshattr:Or adept
[21/11/14 22:14] Serenity Snow:but would you not join an alliance based on that knowledge that it's not?
[21/11/14 22:14] *Chewett*:Yes people do.
[21/11/14 22:14] Aeoshattr:As long as you are the "adept" (follower) of the leader, it's considered a positive vote
[21/11/14 22:14] Dark Demon:@Rophs, or maybe something like Crafters that could have people from different lands, or Archivists too...
[21/11/14 22:15] *Burns*:I think the same system that we have for adepts and protectors would suffice.
[21/11/14 22:15] Serenity Snow:Then they have chosen to 'follow' said leader.
[21/11/14 22:15] Aeoshattr:@all: would it perhaps be better to discuss this on the forum? stuff is moving a bit fast in the chat
[21/11/14 22:15] Dark Demon:You can be a Crafter or Archivist AND feel a bond with a mainland
[21/11/14 22:15] No one:@Aeo: then ... i would not ever be a leader or make Eon my leader ?
[21/11/14 22:15] No one:because I cannot be my own mentor nor I will change Dst for Eon
[21/11/14 22:15] No one: (sorry Eon)
[21/11/14 22:16] Aeoshattr:@NoOne not sure I got what you mean by that
[21/11/14 22:16] *Burns*:Not the same way that says 'adept of xx', just the same system
[21/11/14 22:16] *Sunfire*:i agree with no one, it would become a popularity contest to get hold of an alliance
[21/11/14 22:16] No one:being adept of one and agreeing with a leader ... I don't see the connection
[21/11/14 22:16] Aeoshattr:Similar system, not the same as adept
[21/11/14 22:16] Aeoshattr:Used it as an analogy.
[21/11/14 22:16] Eon:We'll kick out everyone who we don't think is 100 percent loyal, simple
[21/11/14 22:16] No one:+1 Eon
[21/11/14 22:17] Dark Demon:Isn't the leader SUPPOSED to be most popular and 'most loved' by the members, Sun?
[21/11/14 22:17] *Burns*:Which is what everyone else had to ages ago [:P]
[21/11/14 22:17] Aeoshattr:Not necessarily, DD.
[21/11/14 22:17] Serenity Snow:no
[21/11/14 22:17] Rophs:http://magicduel.com...s/followers.php
[21/11/14 22:17] Serenity Snow:they could be the one feared
[21/11/14 22:17] Aeoshattr:Also, @ both DD and Sun and others because I lost count
[21/11/14 22:17] *Sunfire*:most popular isnt the same as most fit to lead
[21/11/14 22:17] Aeoshattr:You are FOLLOWING the leader. It merely means you agree with their view
[21/11/14 22:17] No one:I disagree, a leader doesn't have to be most loved
[21/11/14 22:17] Aeoshattr:Not that you like them. Not that you love them. Not that you hate them, not that you're their friend
[21/11/14 22:17] Dark Demon:Then the popularity contest will be a massive fail.
[21/11/14 22:18] Aeoshattr:For instance, I could say I could vote (hypothetically) dst as leader for LR, because I like the way she handles certain issues
[21/11/14 22:18] Aeoshattr:vote = follow or w/e term you want to use
[21/11/14 22:18] Serenity Snow:Think of it this way, it might help some anyways. Sometimes people will follow say the bully in a group, not because they agree but they do not wish to be on their bad side. While some may follow the
[21/11/14 22:18] Aeoshattr:If I believe the leader is capable of leading the alliance in a direction I like, then I don't have to like the leader
[21/11/14 22:19] Serenity Snow:one with money, because they hope to gain something from it by showing their support, again nothing requires love or loyality.
[21/11/14 22:19] Aeoshattr:SURE, that makes room for takeover!
[21/11/14 22:19] Aeoshattr:Be more liked than the leader, and you get leadership!
[21/11/14 22:19] Serenity Snow:People can choose to follow anyone based on many things.
[21/11/14 22:19] Aeoshattr:Sneaky!
[21/11/14 22:19] Dark Demon:"Sometimes people will follow say the bully in a group, not because they agree but they do not wish to be on their bad side. " YES THIS.
[21/11/14 22:19] No one:no, role based alliances don't need to get popular
[21/11/14 22:19] Dark Demon:But again, wouldn't that mean that in an alliance they are not really... allied? lol
[21/11/14 22:20] No one:RBA are give to a person for a certain role period
[21/11/14 22:20] Aeoshattr:So I think this will "settle down" in each role based alliance, based on their role and view of the realm
[21/11/14 22:20] Serenity Snow:You are following and thus allied for a different reason or cause. Fear, Greed, Desire, Trust, Friendship, Same Ideas...
[21/11/14 22:20] Aeoshattr:For instance, I personally see Caretakers as a role alliance, rather than military
[21/11/14 22:20] Dark Demon:I think the discusison is going more towards land-based than alliance-based as far as the 'leadership' goes
[21/11/14 22:20] Aeoshattr:Surely their ideals and view of the world must be different from some other role alliance that I can't think of atm
[21/11/14 22:20] Dark Demon:Alliance leaders arent necessarily land leaders
[21/11/14 22:21] *Sunfire*:a leader isnt chosen, he climbs the ranks naturally
[21/11/14 22:21] Dark Demon:Honestly, if the follower system is implemented in this, it will become very similar to protectors
[21/11/14 22:21] Aeoshattr:Not always, Sun. There are many types of leaders. And I think this system allows for variety
[21/11/14 22:21] Serenity Snow:Right, and part of the climbing the ranks can be do to many different ways.
[21/11/14 22:21] Aeoshattr:^
[21/11/14 22:21] Dark Demon:constantly asking to 'please follow me' etc
[21/11/14 22:22] Aeoshattr:So? Any non- braindead person should ponder whether to follow someone or not, not just click "follow"
[21/11/14 22:22] Dark Demon:In the current system, you CAN prove yourself to become loyalty leader
[21/11/14 22:22] Aeoshattr:You can grind*
[21/11/14 22:22] *Burns*:Tsk, prove yourself.
[21/11/14 22:22] Serenity Snow:I've had characters join 'clans' we didn't call them alliances for friendship, not wanting to be 'without protection' and for trust. The without protection of course being based around fear.
[21/11/14 22:22] No one:then do it
[21/11/14 22:22] Dark Demon:yea, same thing, but it requires effort
[21/11/14 22:22] Dark Demon:which is good
[21/11/14 22:22] *Burns*:Give me a number and a day.
[21/11/14 22:23] No one:@ Aeo: yes, go grind
[21/11/14 22:23] *Burns*:Give Eon a number and half an hour.
[21/11/14 22:23] Aeoshattr:Only one type of effort that I personally don't see as 100% applicable to all alliances.
[21/11/14 22:23] Dark Demon:I agree with No one on this.
[21/11/14 22:23] Aeoshattr:not saying it's bad, it can work perfectly with military alliances
[21/11/14 22:23] Aeoshattr:But it doesn't say anything about you other than "I can grind"
[21/11/14 22:23] Aeoshattr:IMO
[21/11/14 22:23] *Burns*:You don't prove yourself to be an ally leader, you have a high briskness value and some good pals.
[21/11/14 22:24] No one:@burns: do you thing that GotR dismissal was not imposed?
[21/11/14 22:24] Aeoshattr:whereas the follower system could say "I am good with words" or "I can intimidate"
[21/11/14 22:24] Dark Demon:Aeo, I don't think someone would be happy with just a 'grinder' leading them
[21/11/14 22:24] Serenity Snow:Will there be a copy of this in the forums by chance?
[21/11/14 22:24] Dark Demon:ANY alliance members who are not happy with their leader will definitely make sure that he or she doesn't become leader
[21/11/14 22:24] *Burns*:Yeah, we've got spells that make a log of the last few hours.
[21/11/14 22:25] *Burns*:Well, not me, but we'll find somebody to do it and put it up then. [:)]
[21/11/14 22:25] Dark Demon:And no one would be stupid to just grind to become leader rather than being a natural leader from the start
[21/11/14 22:25] Aeoshattr:Why not? In the current system, you don't need to effectively be good at leading the alliance, you just need high brisk.
[21/11/14 22:25] *Burns*:DD, you miss the point.
[21/11/14 22:25] *Sunfire*:@DD, try to kick eon or any other grinder out of an ally if he doesnt want to be
[21/11/14 22:26] *Burns*:If somebody wants your ally, you won't stop them in the current system.
[21/11/14 22:26] Dark Demon:That wasn't my point either
[21/11/14 22:26] Dark Demon:You simply stop treating the grinder as a leader
[21/11/14 22:26] No one:@burns: but you can [:D]
[21/11/14 22:26] Aeoshattr:You simply stop believing the loyalty leader can kick you.
[21/11/14 22:26] Aeoshattr:Super effective.
[21/11/14 22:26] Aeoshattr: (sorry for snappiness, but that's kind of what you're saying)
[21/11/14 22:27] Eon:If that was the case all the alliances would be mine.
[21/11/14 22:27] *Chewett*:Agreed
[21/11/14 22:27] Aeoshattr:@Eon, not sure who that is addressed to. Could you please clarify?
[21/11/14 22:27] No one: [:D]
[21/11/14 22:27] Eon:burns
[21/11/14 22:28] Aeoshattr:Ty.
[21/11/14 22:28] *Chewett*:I suggest, if people wish to continue, they go and make a forum topic to further discuss this.
[21/11/14 22:28] Aeoshattr:Right. Another idea: the whole follower thing could scale with loyalty. I'm sure this can go very good or very bad
[21/11/14 22:28] No one:@Burns: you have no idea how many offers to take over have we been made
[21/11/14 22:28] *Sunfire*:the only thing that keeps the alliances up is the activeness of the loyalty leader, and the loyalty towards the alliance
[21/11/14 22:28] *Chewett*:Forum.
[21/11/14 22:28] *Chewett*:Forum.
[21/11/14 22:28] Aeoshattr:Ah, alright. Forums are probably better
[21/11/14 22:28] *Chewett*:Forum.
[21/11/14 22:29] No one:some are worth as they are, some need inside arrangement, others ..need complete workout
[21/11/14 22:29] No one:and this is our role
[21/11/14 22:29] No one:we are not mindless destroyers
[21/11/14 22:29] Aeoshattr:@Chewie: where do the judges come in this?
[21/11/14 22:29] *Burns*:LEt's pick up on that point after chewie's done.
[21/11/14 23:02] *Burns*:Speaking of hitting, let's pick up
[21/11/14 23:02] Rikstar:Also do alliance fights still work?
[21/11/14 23:02] Aeoshattr: (I am a bit slow right now, apologies. two practical classes, two seminars, all on different topics. my mind is mush)
[21/11/14 23:02] *Burns*:I don't think you aim to disband all allies, but you can, technically, with ease.
[21/11/14 23:03] No one:not that easy, but it can be done
[21/11/14 23:03] No one:but then ... there is no point to do that
[21/11/14 23:03] Rikstar:How do these fights work, I see those stats at the capitals.
[21/11/14 23:03] No one:we have no ... interest in that
[21/11/14 23:03] *Burns*:Speaking for myself, i seriously don't want to invite new people.
[21/11/14 23:04] No one:and I've seen that in many alliances
[21/11/14 23:04] Rikstar:KoB has 46 spaces availeble.
[21/11/14 23:04] No one:they prefer to have players ... ouside alliances instead on letting them in
[21/11/14 23:04] *Burns*:I can't know who they really work for, neither can i know if you currently deem Guerilla worthy of existing, thus, not taking chances.
[21/11/14 23:04] Rikstar:The whole community can be in KoB1
[21/11/14 23:04] Rikstar:*!
[21/11/14 23:05] No one:look, GotR was an unfortunate event
[21/11/14 23:05] *Burns*:this isn't a good position for an ally, and i'm fairly sure that many allies work like that, and did so for a very long time now.
[21/11/14 23:05] No one:it was meant just to be a change in management
[21/11/14 23:05] No one:but ... Kings can do nasty stuff, you know that
[21/11/14 23:06] No one:@Burns: would you accept me in you alliance ?
[21/11/14 23:06] *Burns*:Which is why i'll do whatever it takes to keep Grido as king in Golemus as long as i'm related to that land.
[21/11/14 23:07] No one:yes, but then ... that can work against you ... sometimes
[21/11/14 23:07] *Burns*:But i can control the election rather easily, while the loyalty thing just hits me over night whenever you like.
[21/11/14 23:08] Rikstar:So GG is kind of corrupt?
[21/11/14 23:09] No one:no Rik, it is called Birocracy [:P]
[21/11/14 23:09] *Burns*:Let's put it that way, if Grido turns on me, i've failed, and i can accept that.
[21/11/14 23:09] Rophs:No one do you mean "bureaucracy"...?
[21/11/14 23:10] Aeoshattr: (don't nitpick, Rophs [:P] )
[21/11/14 23:10] *Burns*:When Peace got Guerilla from yrth over night, and we all were suddenly out of OUR ally, that is something very unacceptable to me.
[21/11/14 23:10] No one: (@R: yea)
[21/11/14 23:10] :Rikstar chuckles
[21/11/14 23:10] No one:yes Burns, but you can get it back, you can negociate it
[21/11/14 23:10] Rikstar:Also ally leadership shouldn't be stated with loyality, though it is a bit more fun with ally take overs.
[21/11/14 23:11] No one:and ... this kind of things should not happen if alliances would not be closed
[21/11/14 23:12] *Burns*:Yet if allies are open, i can't know who takes it.
[21/11/14 23:12] Rophs:Why won't those stupid idiots let me in their crappy club for jerks?
[21/11/14 23:12] *Burns*:You are the best in the business, no doubt, but anybody else can grind a few loyalty points.
[21/11/14 23:12] Rikstar:What do you mean with open and closed?
[21/11/14 23:13] *Burns*:If you get GG, no biggie, it'll take some time, but i'm confident that it won't die.
[21/11/14 23:13] Rikstar:For me loyality is really hard to obtain, I remain at zero all the time. hehe
[21/11/14 23:13] *Burns*:If a necro gets it, though?
[21/11/14 23:14] *Burns*:Or a newcomer who wants to join the big boys and needs to set an example?
[21/11/14 23:14] No one:I know, each member has to earn its place
[21/11/14 23:15] *Burns*:Open, active recruitment of new people.
[21/11/14 23:15] : *Nimrodel* was dragged by Eon
[21/11/14 23:15] *Burns*:Closed, what i do right now. Me, Grido, Bunny and Miq, no recruitment.
[21/11/14 23:15] No one:I'd go for like : pasive recruitment
[21/11/14 23:15] Rikstar:KoB is between open and closed right now.
[21/11/14 23:15] Rikstar:Thus passive recruitment.
[21/11/14 23:16] Rophs:Rik I think Chew offered me an invite to Kob a long time ago...
[21/11/14 23:16] Rophs:I have a screenshot somewhere
[21/11/14 23:16] Rikstar:I know.
[21/11/14 23:16] Rophs:Can aaront222 join?
[21/11/14 23:16] Rophs:\
[21/11/14 23:16] Rikstar:No.
[21/11/14 23:16] Rophs:n
[21/11/14 23:17] Rikstar:Is aaront a MB citizen?
[21/11/14 23:17] No one:look, when the land loyalty was first implemented I said something
[21/11/14 23:17] Rikstar:I think not.
[21/11/14 23:17] Rophs:No
[21/11/14 23:17] No one: (excuse my language) there will be land loyalty wh*es
[21/11/14 23:18] No one:there is no way we can change human behavior
[21/11/14 23:18] *Burns*:Obviously, because it works.
[21/11/14 23:18] No one:it has some benefits
[21/11/14 23:18] *Chewett*:Ropha, Was that a "Chew said" statement?
[21/11/14 23:18] *Burns*:And no downsides.
[21/11/14 23:18] *Chewett*:Considering how unhappy I am currently with you, is that a wise idea?
[21/11/14 23:19] :Rophs facepalms
[21/11/14 23:19] Rikstar:Jail time?
[21/11/14 23:19] No one:oh, but it has some great downsizes
[21/11/14 23:19] No one:you lose trust
[21/11/14 23:19] No one:ppl will not trust you anymore
[21/11/14 23:19] *Burns*:Oh, yes, that matters a lot of course.
[21/11/14 23:19] Rikstar:Wasn't that already some weeks ago?
[21/11/14 23:20] *Burns*:Specially to the people who aren't much into this whole land- roleplay.
[21/11/14 23:20] Rophs:When Mur was adding clickies and teleporting people around and I was an mp3 a the time...
[21/11/14 23:20] Rikstar:I can't remember that incident.
[21/11/14 23:20] Rophs:I think we were in LotE and there were the MB elections that resulted in Chew being king, PO gave me a silver because I said something funny
[21/11/14 23:21] No one:then we have to find a solution for THIS problem
[21/11/14 23:21] Rikstar:Which problem?
[21/11/14 23:21] No one:the land loyalty
[21/11/14 23:21] Rikstar:Remove it!
[21/11/14 23:22] Rikstar:And let it be the same as how kingship is organized.
[21/11/14 23:22] Rophs:Remove ALL land loyalty when you switch citizenships
[21/11/14 23:22] No one:I'd like to be able to take a few players into "training", not into alliance but into land
[21/11/14 23:22] No one:and still be able to kick them out if I dislike them
[21/11/14 23:22] Rophs:So when Nim went from GG to LotE all of her GG loyalty should havebeen removed
[21/11/14 23:22] Rikstar:Ranks within alliances?
[21/11/14 23:22] Aeoshattr: (The PM sound will kill me one day.)
[21/11/14 23:23] Rophs: (BLINGRWAAAAH! Best sound!)
[21/11/14 23:23] Lintara: (lol)
[21/11/14 23:23] *Burns*: (turn down the volume? [:P] )
[21/11/14 23:23] Rophs: (afk)
[21/11/14 23:24] Aeoshattr: (It was on minimum audible level. It's more the suddenness rather than the volume)
[21/11/14 23:24] Rikstar:Also there should be some guidelines on how to handle problems within MD.
[21/11/14 23:24] Aeoshattr: (anyway, /endQQ)
[21/11/14 23:24] No one:look, when I joined SoS, I said : ok, we'll keep it for 30-100 days and move on
[21/11/14 23:24] No one:I celebrated my 1k last month
[21/11/14 23:25] *Burns*: (should've brought it up, that's a simple thing to focus on: Find a PM sound that doesn't give me a heart attack!)
[21/11/14 23:25] No one:I can never conceive leaving SoS for good
[21/11/14 23:25] Rikstar:I think that that holds for most of us in an alliance.
[21/11/14 23:25] No one: (burns, impossible, I find that sound even in some movies or at random on the street)
[21/11/14 23:26] Aeoshattr: (I thought it wasn't such an important issue, hah)
[21/11/14 23:26] *Burns*: (I've had times when i dreamt of the chat beep)
[21/11/14 23:26] No one:but you lost the idea, being in an alliance teaches you if you want to be in or not
[21/11/14 23:26] Aeoshattr: (I know that feeling, Burns. Happened to me too)
[21/11/14 23:28] No one:being into an allince gives you a chance to find yourself ... if you are among ppl you like or are your friends
[21/11/14 23:28] No one:I don't want SoS to be like a job
[21/11/14 23:28] No one:I don't want another boss, nor that I want to be one
[21/11/14 23:28] No one:I think we need to do this to more players
[21/11/14 23:29] :[Spell] lautirrorrim
[21/11/14 23:29] :No one welcomes dst
[21/11/14 23:29] *Burns*:Yes, we absolutely should. That's why i seriously want a more stable leadership position.
[21/11/14 23:30] Rikstar:But honestly that will never come.
[21/11/14 23:30] Rikstar:I'm sure it will stay the following 5 years at least.
[21/11/14 23:30] No one:as I said, we need to have some positions as proteje next to each alliance
[21/11/14 23:30] *Burns*:I really want to go up to some random newbie, chat with them, and be like 'hey, you sound nice, wanna join golemus?'
[21/11/14 23:30] No one:exactly
[21/11/14 23:31] Rikstar:You already can right?
[21/11/14 23:31] Rikstar:With your king he can grant citizenship.
[21/11/14 23:31] *Burns*:As it is, that will not happen. And i don't see any other ally going around like that, either.
[21/11/14 23:31] dst:if i see another King in MB I will barf
[21/11/14 23:31] Aeoshattr:Yes, but I think Burns' point is "how do I know said newb won't get GG thrown over"?
[21/11/14 23:31] No one:no, we don't have that
[21/11/14 23:31] No one:you maybe, East doesn't
[21/11/14 23:31] No one:UG doesn't
[21/11/14 23:31] Rikstar:May I see you barfing?
[21/11/14 23:32] No one:MDA, Lab ... don't have kings
[21/11/14 23:32] Rikstar:Also why are different kings in MB a problem. *chuckles*
[21/11/14 23:32] Rikstar:Is lab a land?
[21/11/14 23:32] Aeoshattr:It has citizenship...
[21/11/14 23:32] Aeoshattr:you could argue it is
[21/11/14 23:32] : Eon throws the dice and gets 7
[21/11/14 23:32] Rikstar:It has. O.o
[21/11/14 23:33] No one:so, that is my idea on how to "upgrade" the alliances
[21/11/14 23:34] No one:if we don't have that ... the non-main-lands ... don't exist
[21/11/14 23:34] No one:don't matter
[21/11/14 23:34] Rikstar:So DD can have his labyrinth.
[21/11/14 23:34] No one:I want to be able to grant citizenship and to tie that player to our alliance
[21/11/14 23:34] Rikstar:East will have more mass.
[21/11/14 23:34] Rikstar:And the underground more shadows.
[21/11/14 23:34] dst:MDA has kings
[21/11/14 23:34] dst:TWO!
[21/11/14 23:35] Rikstar:Who?
[21/11/14 23:35] :No one opens the options and sets Rikstar to ignored
[21/11/14 23:35] dst:Ug does just fine
[21/11/14 23:35] *Sunfire*:darkraptor and kyphis
[21/11/14 23:35] Aeoshattr:^
[21/11/14 23:36] Rikstar:Ah yes, I remember it a bit now.
[21/11/14 23:39] :dst passed dst Leash to No one
[21/11/14 23:40] No one:thank you
[21/11/14 23:40] No one: * mubles * darn bug
[21/11/14 23:43] *Burns*:well, time to sleep
[/log]
If there was any more past that point, i must've missed it.