Grido's Actions

[Curiose]

In light of THIS anouncement today:
[quote]Ann. 2050 - [2011-10-05 16:29:58 - Stage 11]
The Council's investigation regarding Phantom Orchid has finished. She is sentenced to 1 month jail term starting from now for spreading the use of an exploit and not reporting it to higher authorities. Being a veteran she should have known this was not allowed. Also, the fact that she is a veteran made the punishment less harsh then it should have been. The players that were involved in the trades will not be punished but consider this as a warning.[/quote]

I have found that despite ongoing proceedings in the case, there still remains ONE objection regarding the behavior of Grido.

Many of us know that he has failed to react without biased behavior, and humiliated Phantom Orchid wrongly for her misguided use of a bug. Instead of humiliating Dst, who has commited equal or WORSE behavior such as harassment, and abuse of LHO spells, he chose to act upon Phantom Orchid without proper due process of the court. Such as notifying her before said humiliation, or getting her side to the story.

The community has shown over and over again, in several topics that they do not agree with the recent behavior that Grido has taken in this case. Many of them wish this to be undone, and to have this behavior have some sort of consistancy regarding ALL LHOs and ALL generic players of the game.

I would like to clarify that I do not dispute the punishment that Phantom Orchid has received, but rather the unfairness in the proceedings of the case and how it was handled.

I do not want the excuse of her being a precident, but rather, I want to fight for the behavior that was inflicted upon her and not properly due upon worse offenders.

If anyone recalls back when Fenrir Greycloth [or however he was spelled] harased Dst, there was only 1 official advertisement about his actions. And that was in the announcements.
Or even in the minor cases of Cyber Sex between Princess Katt and Dragual Monarth, there, too, was only 1 official advertisement about their actions. That too, was in the announcements.

Phantom Orchid not only received humiliation on the forums, the announcement list, but also in the trigger's box where Grido put up a link to the forum post stating what she had done. To me, that is not only blatant unfairness, but also disrespect before bothering to communicate before acting.

I want conistency, and I want fairness, And by Damn, I want the bias and the "Well my friend is better than you, so I'm going to protect them and keep their punishments secret from the world simply because I like them." To end.

There will be a poll, but I was unable to create one. I will as a mod to do so for me.

We are all adults. So start acting like it.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1317834934' post='93348']
The community has shown over and over again, in several topics that they do not agree with the recent behavior that Grido has taken in this case. Many of them wish this to be undone, and to have this behavior have some sort of consistancy regarding ALL LHOs and ALL generic players of the game.
[/quote]

Why bother creating another poll when the previous one showed that the community overall agree's with grido's role and what he does?

And there cannot be consistancy regarding everyone since everyone is different.

I actually feel that being announced in the trigger box, is a less harsh punishment than being in the announcements for ever. The trigger box is only temporary and people forgot. You need to remember that grido didnt write the announcements, Mur/council did it. Grido dealt with his side. He could have asked for the more pernament shame of it being in the announcements but he didnt, It just so turned out that it did get in the announcements because of mur/council

So, basicly im saying why create a poll when the previous one was rather clear even though it was biased against grido? The community spoke, But perhaps you didnt like the answer.

[Kyphis the Bard]

Personally, my main annoyance at the way Grido handled this is that he used the triggers instead of the Mood Panel.

I don't like what happened, but aside from the use of the trigger box, as a player, disregarding his role, it is fully within his rights to have handled it the way he did.
However, useing the Trigger box to advertise this matter, when generaly not disclosing the terms of other punishments, seems very unfair to me.

That said, What Grido does is his, the councils, Mur, and the other parties matter, not mine.
I don't need to know the details of a punishment, because I trust him to handle it correctly. If he doesn't, then it will be on his head.

To use the example everyone else does, the dst matter. Why does his lack of disclosure not bother me on this matter, even a tiny bit?[list]
[*]This matter was HIGHLY publicized.
[*]The council/Mur involved themselves (as displayed by the announcements)
[*]Grido needed to act in a formal capacity, not as a friend
[*]While some people disagree, I personally feel dst is EASILY mature enough to understand the difference between what someone does as a personal choice, and what they do as an official choice. I am also very certain Grido feels the same, so he wouldn't be worried that what he did would be interpreted as a personal attack instead of a formal reprimand.
[/list]
Basically, because The Powers That Be where paying clear attention to the matter, if they are okay with what ever punishment Grido put on dst, I trust it was the right one.

Because I trust Mur.
I trust the council.
I trust Grido.
And I definitely trust dst.

[Yrthilian]

I have not commented on any fo this for some time and well now i will because all the unhappy people keep posing new topics about the same old topic.
This issue was raised and the community showed the Grido is doing a good job. that was shown by the stupid poll. yet another topic that was made.

I get it that you are not happy with the out come but posting several times about the same thing will not change the outcome of the last subject about this.

I have to say i am disappointed by all the topic and that people wont take the result as is.
yes Grido may not have handled things in the manner you wish he like the rest of us makes mistakes and we learn from them.
I have to be honest and say i would most likely have taken the same action as he did.

What ever Grido has done in this one little issue you bring up has has over all done a great job as LHO leader
and all you people seem to want to do it harp on about this one thing. What about all the other things he has done and the
work he has done for the community at large . I dont see you praising him for that. He has done far more good that bad
in this position.

To me this is getting to a stage of harassment the think you are agents and yet you and other are doing just that
The community has already spoken in the other topic so drop it. It has been dealt with. If you dont like it though.

[Hedge Munos]

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1317834934' post='93348']
In light of THIS anouncement today:


I have found that despite ongoing proceedings in the case, there still remains ONE objection regarding the behavior of Grido.

Many of us know that he has failed to react without biased behavior, and humiliated Phantom Orchid wrongly for her misguided use of a bug. Instead of humiliating Dst, who has commited equal or WORSE behavior such as harassment, and abuse of LHO spells, he chose to act upon Phantom Orchid without proper due process of the court. Such as notifying her before said humiliation, or getting her side to the story.

The community has shown over and over again, in several topics that they do not agree with the recent behavior that Grido has taken in this case. Many of them wish this to be undone, and to have this behavior have some sort of consistancy regarding ALL LHOs and ALL generic players of the game.[/quote]

I recall only one topic. "Many of them wish this to be undone.." What? If you look at the previous poll taken, as stated by several before my posting this, majority ruled that Grido is doing a fine job, we understand his role. Have you spoken to Grido about this? I ask you this as I asked Pipstickz, because I think it's more of a personal issue with the way he did it rather than a community issue with Grido's actions. If not, I apologize for this assumption, but I would like to know that you and Grido have spoken and you have expressed your feelings on this matter to him BEFORE posting this.

Hedge

[Curiose]

1. I am beating this to death because I am tired of people getting away with things that they should not, and the inequality given by the 'higher ups.' I do not care if he is an LHO, that gives him every right to receive scrutiny and criticism from the general public.

2. -I- do not trust that SOME LHOs are doing their job properly, and thus, are treated as just stupid pawns that can simply be thrown away. Would I want to be an LHO now, knowing that unless you're best friends with the Inquisitor, you get treated differently than anyone else? NO.

3. I never said I don't think that Grido doesn't do a good job. I said because of his RECENT actions that he has lost MY trust and the COMMUNITY'S, and especially MY respect.

4. Many people pointed out that they were disappointed with grido's behavior, NOT that they wanted him to step down, thus correlated with the fact that they wanted his ACTIONS to be reversed.

Go ahead and say I'm wrong, go ahead and yell at me, BUT I WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THIS ENDS. DO YOU HEAR ME?

I am sick of it.

Edited October 8, 2011 by Curiose

[Grido]

[quote name='Hedge Munos' timestamp='1318003858' post='93502']Have you spoken to Grido about this?[/quote]She didn't.

[awiiya]

As an aside, random capitalization doesn't do anything to emphasize your argument. Clear, rational reasoning does that.

Awi

[Pipstickz]

Curi, this is not a hill worth dying for.

[Deatznce0]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1318019060' post='93517']
Curi, this is not a hill worth dying for.
[/quote]
It might not be worth dying for but we've all still got to try, right?

I agree with what Curi has said; why wasn't Dst's incident made as public?

To be entirely honest, I actually have no clue as to what "crime" Dst has committed nor what punishment she got? Was this the cyber-sex incident or am I on the wrong page entirely? I don't blame Grido, the Council, Mur or even anyone but just why wasn't it public? It's just seeming more and more like everything was swept under the rug.

Placing punishments or news through the mood status or public logs is a terrible idea and concept, many of us live in different time zones and this is worsened by the fact that a person may spam or conceal what should be made public.

(And since I wouldn't know better since I don't know what has or had happened, I'm completely off-topic aren't I?)

[Curiose]

It is a war worth fighting for because there are people who have been wronged, over and over again and this. needs. to. stop.

I've said it once, and I said it before, and I will continue to say it until I am blue in the face.

whether I lose my respect, whether I lose my friends, or everything I have. [b]I. Don't. Care. [/b]

This has gone on long enough and why the community hasn't gotten sick of it is beyond me. Oh wait... they have BECAUSE THEY LEFT.

Grido's actions may not be reversable, but it sure as hell is not acceptable. Phantom Orchid didn't deserve this. No one in their right mind deserves this yet it happened.

Edited October 8, 2011 by Curiose

[Pothos]

Lufas Guth! This is gone far enough. At this pint it's pretty God be damned clear. People in MD either don't care, or don't agree about Grido's actions.

Yes, Personaly I agree he's done wrong, Yes, I think he should at the very least be public about how he punished DST, but -I am in the minority-.

MD isn't a Democracy, but even if it was, this topic would be closed. The're not enough people behind this.

Curi, Your heart is in the right place, and you might even be right.. But your never going to make progress this way.. Just ask for this topic to be closed. If you absolutly must, then keep gathering evidence, but right now.. let it drop.

[Rendril]

Grido did not make dst's punishment public because he did not want Seighart to know what it was.
The council did not investigate because the case was never brought to them.
The previous poll resulted as it did because it brought into question Grido's suitability as the LHO leader instead of the way he handled the recent LHO cases.

[Deatznce0]

[quote name='Rendril' timestamp='1318063939' post='93537']
Grido did not make dst's punishment public because he did not want Seighart to know what it was.
The council did not investigate because the case was never brought to them.
The previous poll resulted as it did because it brought into question Grido's suitability as the LHO leader instead of the way he handled the recent LHO cases.
[/quote]
Finally! Someone who actually understands and explains everything! But I'm still uncertain as to "what" Dst had done however...
[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1318023591' post='93520']
It is a war worth fighting for because there are people who have been wronged, over and over again and this. needs. to. stop.

I've said it once, and I said it before, and I will continue to say it until I am blue in the lungs.

whether I lose my respect, whether I lose my friends, or everything I have. [b]I. Don't. Care. [/b]

This has gone on long enough and why the community hasn't gotten sick of it is beyond me. Oh wait... they have BECAUSE THEY LEFT.

Grido's actions may not be reversable, but it sure as hell is not acceptable. Phantom Orchid didn't deserve this. No one in their right mind deserves this yet it happened.
[/quote]

Curi, I completely agree with you and this injustice is worth fighting for. I don't agree with this unfairness of how things were treated and punishment being "lighter" to those you deem to know but as Pothos pointed out, we're in the minority.

[quote name='Pothos' timestamp='1318025883' post='93522']
Lufas Guth! This is gone far enough. At this pint it's pretty God be damned clear. People in MD either don't care, or don't agree about Grido's actions.

Yes, Personaly I agree he's done wrong, Yes, I think he should at the very least be public about how he punished DST, but -I am in the minority-.

MD isn't a Democracy, but even if it was, this topic would be closed. The're not enough people behind this.

Curi, Your heart is in the right place, and you might even be right.. But your never going to make progress this way.. Just ask for this topic to be closed. If you absolutly must, then keep gathering evidence, but right now.. let it drop.
[/quote]

As much as I hate to argue that the residents of MD do not care over its issues, it just seems to me that many of them don't have [b]ACCESS[/b] to the issue, I personally (hopefully without being arrogant, flamboyant or whatever) would like to think that I would be one of the older veterans who would be knowledgeable about the events in the realm, but if even I am not aware of these recent issues then by god how is any of the younger players going to have access to them?

[Chewett]

[quote name='Deatznce0' timestamp='1318071891' post='93551']
I personally (hopefully without being arrogant, flamboyant or whatever) would like to think that I would be one of the older veterans who would be knowledgeable about the events in the realm, but if even I am not aware of these recent issues then by god how is any of the younger players going to have access to them?
[/quote]

It is very easy to become a veteren, Just waiting is needed, and also very easy to not pay attention to what is happening, and miss out issues, to be honest, iv seen you around before, and you may be an old player, But really, i have no clue who you are from your playername

[Deatznce0]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1318072779' post='93554']

It is very easy to become a veteren, Just waiting is needed, and also very easy to not pay attention to what is happening, and miss out issues, to be honest, iv seen you around before, and you may be an old player, But really, i have no clue who you are from your playername
[/quote]

Indeed this is true! (Each individual has their role right? )
My influence really stopped once the players I knew left (which the main reason I've remained dormant)

...but back on topic now!

[Curiose]

We are the minority but that does not mean that we have to sit back and take that mistreatment. No one has to do that.

I am so tired of hearing 'nothing wlil change.' Well gee, maybe if people put in some back bone and stood up for their beliefs, we wouldn't be having this kind of issue!

As for not wanting Seigheart to know....
Dst gets off knowing every single time that when she 'outs' someone, they get in trouble. Why should anyone give her an ounce of courtesy in the matter?

Falsh, namely everything happens on the forum now. Nothing happens in game exept punishments, testing, festivals, etc. However. Being the minority, that does not mean that a small handful of people cannot fight.

Edited October 8, 2011 by Curiose

[Seigheart]

So, dst's "punishment" was not made public because Grido didn't want me to know? What do I have to do with dst's punishment? O.o

Who's choice was it to keep it from me, and what is the reasoning behind this? I don't care what the punishment, I just want to make sure something was done.

And that's not true Rendril. I sent several emails to the Council.

[Rendril]

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1318095502' post='93593']
So, dst's "punishment" was not made public because Grido didn't want me to know? What do I have to do with dst's punishment? O.o

Who's choice was it to keep it from me, and what is the reasoning behind this? I don't care what the punishment, I just want to make sure something was done.
[/quote]
Grido cited you as the reason for not making it public. I neither know nor care what is going on between you two.

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1318095502' post='93593']
And that's not true Rendril. I sent several emails to the Council.
[/quote]
Then you are sending them to the wrong email because none were received.


@Deatznce0: see this topic regarding dst's alleged crime.http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10349-chat-ban-abuse/page__fromsearch__1

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

I will state a second time, as I have spoken the same words to Grido personally.. I do not feel that he handled the situation well. He has done a good job thus far as Inquisitor, but this particular incident has motivated me not to run for LHO [i](One of several reasons, but a main factor in my decision)[/i], not simply because a member of the Eclipse is the main subject here - but because I did not feel that he gave Phantom Orchid the proper respect she as a long-standing player deserved.

[i]([/i][i]In response to Hedge's post, and because I do not want to make another post in this thread: [/i][i]Long standing member to me means someone who does not have a shaky record of abuse in the game, and who has sought to improve the atmosphere of the game via various means. This to me does not plainly mean that Poe has been in the game for a long time.) [/i]

His act of placing the topic of Phantom Orchid's demotion in the trigger box, as though it were of great and immediate import bothered me quite a bit. She should not have found out about the reasons behind her loss of LHO status through the trigger box, but instead should have learned of such things through a private message or something equally confidential.

I cannot speak for the case against Dst because I truly do not know all of the facts concerning it, but I will say that from the look of what has happened I can understand the upset over it. The way it appears to the public is that Dst abused an LHO tool for what ever reason she felt correct but did not get punished for doing so - there was no statement regarding what had occurred, only that Grido 'spoke' to her and 'took care of it'. The way it appears is a good reason to be upset.

What I also bring into question is why Dst's issue was kept confidential and private, while Phantom Orchid was made an example of. It is well understood that the use of an exploit for personal benefit is not allowed, and it is to be reported- Poe did not truly realize it was an exploit. Perhaps instead of using her as an example, the exploit itself should be used as an example of what to look out for as an LHO?

My point is.. that matters that involve important status decisions should be handled with more delicacy.

[b][size=2]Edit: To clarify the label of 'long standing member'.[/size][/b]

Edited October 10, 2011 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol

[Phantom Orchid]

44 days ago I confided in Grido with a request for help with a situation regarding another player's sexual harassment towards me, along with using out-of-game judgments and prejudices to slander my character in-game, repeatedly. 44 days ago...

All I heard from him, after repeated requests - was "I will talk to Mur about this."

For the first month, I waited, and waited. I did not feel comfortable in-game because this situation has remained unresolved.

As head LHO and Inquisitor, I expected more.

There are clear rules/restrictions in place... yet, when evidence was presented to Grido, and I have not heard one word besides "I will talk to Mur" about this... no rush to the Council with this information.

At least I could have been given the e-mail address for council ( I did not want to publicly post my proof in forums because of the explicit nature of the content).

Contrasting the expediency with which he chose to act in regards to the 'exploit' with -this- situation... leaves me to question the legitimacy of the head LHO position.

In fact, I have questioned whether or not I will continue to play this game.

If the rules/regulations will only be -selectively- enforced (or evidence routed through the proper channels in a timely manner, especially for grave offenses), then I will more heavily consider leaving this game. Because it -should- be a safe place for everyone.

I confided in Grido with a very serious grievance, but gave up on him after 44 days...

[Hedge Munos]

[quote name='Amoran Kalamanira Kol' timestamp='1318209823' post='93677']
I will state a second time, as I have spoken the same words to Grido personally.. I do not feel that he handled the situation well. He has done a good job thus far as Inquisitor, but this particular incident has motivated me not to run for LHO, not simply because a member of the Eclipse is the main subject here - but because I did not feel that he gave Phantom Orchid the proper respect she as a long-standing player deserved.

His act of placing the topic of Phantom Orchid's demotion in the trigger box, as though it were of great and immediate import bothered me quite a bit. She should not have found out about the reasons behind her loss of LHO status through the trigger box, but instead should have learned of such things through a private message or something equally confidential.[/quote]

"...I did not feel that he gave Phantom Orchid the [b]proper respect as a long-standing player deserved..."[/b] - Yes, I agree it would have been more appropriate for her to receive a private message or a nice private conversation; however, her being a 'veteran' should not particularly affect the matter. Yes, she should know better being a veteran, so it does come into account there, but all inhabitants of MagicDuel should be respected, or at the least, regarded. I'm done with this case against Grido, now, so my final statement is that I respect Grido, and Phantom Orchid equally, and all other inhabitants of this realm...And, yes, I do think Grido might've handled it better by personally speaking with PO, but I do not feel like getting into Dst's case, as I do not know enough about it.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0XAI-PFQcA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0XAI-PFQcA[/url]

Hedge

[BFH]

hmmm.... @ Orchid, apart of Grido's issue and such, if you still have the evidence with you, it's highly important that you contact the council and give them all the details (contact@magicduel.com). For many reasons, example: you might haven't been the only affected by that player or players behaviour. Other might been in the same situation, but contrary to you they don't report, and this do need actions.

[Phantom Orchid]

Thank you BFH. I did recently obtain the council's e-mail and submitted the information.

[Yrthilian]

I dont know why you waited that long and decided to use this as a fight agents Grido.
Now if grido did not report the issue then that is another matter.

This is yet another attack on Grido that you decided to use since he demoted you.
That is dont in very bad taste. Tis lessens my view of you. I thought you where better than that.
It is a shame really.

It is easy to find out the email for the council it has been given many times
it is public so not hard to find oh and a simple question is to ask on forms or in game
"What is the council's email address"

I am sorry but i am very disappointed in this if the issue you are saying is as bad as you say
then why the hell did you wait 44DAYS??????

So you can see why i would think this you are making this personal.