"Be at this location, NOW" Attutide?

[Chewett]

Over the past few years, Events organised by mur have tended to have moved towards a format where the location is not announced until hours or minutes before the event.

This is all perfectly fine for events where you need to be online and talking, but this has also applied to vet of the year medal celebrations among other important events whereby you only get your "reward" if you can log on at a specific time and get to a specific location before mur leaves.

With MD spread across every timezone, there will always be times when an event location is announced, organized and held all before someone wakes up, and they miss it.

In my personal opinion keeping a location secret until the last moment, then revealing it and expecting people to be there, even just logging in to go to said location and idle, is pretty mean when they lose the chance of getting some reward they worked for.

Add to it the comments that have been made before about these events, and to quote the most recent announcement "Either be there in person or it means you don't care that much." Which quite frankly I'm sick of such an attitude.

When i have raised such a point directly to mur he seemed not to understand the fact that not everyone can play MD 24/7 or even have access to a computer to just login and move somewhere. There are times when people work and therefore cannot access it. Its not that they dont care about X or Y, but that they cant log in. Holding such events announcing location an hour before the event just means you selectively pick certain timezones to participate, Nothing at all to do with if people care. If you really wanted to see who cared about something it would be announced days before, to see who would take the "hit" of idleing in the location (attaining losses for most) waiting for the event. Wheras now you count how many people were on MD to see the announcement...

I doubt mur will change his mind in regards to this style of events, Given that his attuide at the moment seems to favor whatever timezone he picks, But i wondered what the community felt in regards to these type of events.

Thanks for reading this post
Chewett

Edited October 18, 2011 by Chewett

[Kyphis the Bard]

I'm not overly fond of the poll choices you provided... I picked No, I don't like the fact you need to be online, whereas what I actually mean is that I like you have to be online to attend, I don't like that you have to already be online to know when you need to be online to attend.

I am a very busy person, as are a lot of other people who play MD. I don't really like having to take a whole day out of my scheduled just for a one hour event.

It kind of pisses me off, not to mention my wifes opinion of it.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Kyphis the Bard

[Chewett]

changed the poll slightly, better?

[Kyphis the Bard]

Much.
Although, just to clarify, my only objection is to the time factor. As far as the location goes, I don't mind if it is public or secret, and there are often events where the location SHOULD be secret before hand, such as item batch releases that have happened before.

However, public events like Medal Awards should probably not be secret.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Kyphis the Bard

[Pipstickz]

Personally, I most likely won't be at the 'meeting', because the second half of the day (12:00-0:00) in server time is the time I happen to take to sleep and go to school (3:00-15:00), and I'm not going to stay up all night and take the day off just so I can be there for the one day where we get to do forum in-game. Not to mention, of course, people like Awiiya and Zleip who have roles dependent on the locations they are in.

But then, from what I can tell, this will be Mur letting off a bunch of steam by taking it out on us, which I honestly don't have a problem with; if he needs to send 20 people to jail to feel better and get people off of his back, so that he can continue work on items or whatever, then it's going to happen whether there's a gathering to talk about it or not. So sure, this could be handled better, but we should probably be glad it's being handled at all. He could just take the fast track and punish people on his gut feeling, and what would we be able to do about it?

All in all, yes, I'm a bit bothered by the word choice in the announcement and it was perhaps wrong of Mur to say that, but it doesn't particularly matter; at the end of the day, YOU know if you care or not, and there are more ways to prove it than attending a witch hunt.

Edit: Worth keeping in mind is that I'll probably by shouting about unfairness afterwards, regardless of what I'm saying now, so yeah.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Pipstickz

[Blood Prince]

Personally I don't like the fact you need to be online to know the time and location. Maybe location can be kept secret in order for things like items etc... but telling the time would help people a great deal in scheduling their RL stuff.

I'm usually not available after about 1800Hrs up until about 0600Hrs server time since I need to sleep and I don't have access to a PC at the place I'm currently based. Other times I can manage with some adjustment so since this is happening at the latter end of day 292 I think I might miss the event as well.

This does not mean I do not care. I care about things in MD as much as all of its players do but there are things in RL which one cannot avoid.

But I really love the fact this is spoken in an event as Pip pointed out.

[Yrthilian]

Well i know this year i will miss out on things coming up to xmas
as i am going to be away from December 17th and wont be back till the new year
I most likely wont have internet access for that time. so all xmas stuff i will miss out on.

but i dont see why a vet or even a player that has done well should miss out on something because they could not make an
event on the one day they may not gain access or loose internet connection or are ill and get get to the system.

[Firsanthalas]

This might be a bit ranty but...

I hate this attitude. On a personal level I find that I am active in MD when MD is mainly dead. Now, that is my tough luck and that is just the way it is, nobody is to blame for that.
Like a lot of people I have a full-time job that involves travelling to work and back. Some people in MD work from home, don't work or are students of some kind. If you work in an office for 8 hrs a day you probably spend another 1 hr (up to 2hrs total) either side of that travelling. Then when you get home there is the issue of food. Food does not magically appear in-front of me when I am at home. I have to purchase said food and then cook it. Both activities take time. So lets call that an hour a day for cooking and eating of said food. That's about 11hrs of the day gone.
Given that I work and have to get up in the morning to be in at a particular time and then do said work, that means I cannot stay up all night long on MD. Sad to say it is a given that I must strive to allocate 8hrs for sleeping (even if I don't actually sleep for the 8hrs or at all).
So that puts me up to 19 hours of my day gone.
So, yeah, that gives me 5 full hours out of 24hrs to play MD! Err.. no. I have this thing that I like to call a life. A life involves many strange and wonderful things like, talking to friends and family, reading, watching TV and other interests, dealing with some kind of unforseen drama or crisis, or doing further education (which I am doing). Then there are holidays. Yes, if I happen to book my hols months in advance and don't turn up to a set time and location in MD that is maybe even only announced while I am away on hols then I obviously don't care. Shame on you Firs for daring to go on a holiday.
I was away this year for the festival around Easter. Because I was away that meant that I could not receive any medals etc.
I would say that you could be online for hours on end in MD almost 365 days of the year, but if you happen to be unavailable at just a particular time and place in MD you get nada, or even worse, you are seen to be not bothered?
I am pretty sure that there are many people in MD that can say the same for themselves and feel as I do.

(This statement is in no way meant to offend people that have no life or the dead or undead. Any similarities portrayed here with real persons are purely coincidental.)

Edited October 18, 2011 by Firsanthalas

[Handy Pockets]

I will try every way I can to be here for this gathering. but



I might be able to attend, it is because I am sick and at home. What if I am sleeping because i am sick.....eeks
But if I was not sick, I would be at work, which the computers will only take me to research sites out of the intranet connections.
My iPhone is giving me issues of late so that is not a sure option.
My travel time is an hour each way.

message to Mur
Mur--- Please give us time to prepare, to be at spot you pick. You could come to the Wind's Sanctuary. It is a nice place ( and I am there resting.)

[Pothos]

I have to agree, He may be Mur, but there is a point in which that isn't enough. Honestly there i nothing to stop him from settling himself at some random point in the labrynth and saying 'hey, find me, or else I won't do jack 'cause you don't care', Plus, Prewarning isn't a difficult task. All he would have had to do, was replace the to be anounced segment, with a simple 'GoE, 4:00-16:00 server time' or something to that effect. It would have been less work for him, less problems for everyone else, and completly avoid confusion.

Or, if he realy wanted to, he could simply say 'you'll know where' and teleport all of MD to one spot. your not online? Fine, you'll be there when you log on. You are online? Fine, you're there.

[smartalekrj]

I picked no only because of the not knowing a general idea of the time factor. I work 10 hour days and it's hard to adjust when i work the day before. I changed my schedule to revolve around the meeting that was supposed to be happening today so i would be present. So naturally I will be working tomorrow when the meeting actually happens probably. I can only hope that it happens before or after i get out of work... makes it kind of hard to communicate properly with meetings and such if you cant plan on when they are going to happen.... Finding the location out wouldn't be a concern as long as i knew the time so i could plan on travelling there at an appropriate time.

[Fyrd Argentus]

A lot of things can be by surprise, but things like vet medals that honor a player's regular participation should NOT be dependant on winning the "time lottery".

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

(Firsanthalas has spoken the majority of my thoughts in his post, but I will post anyway.)

During my time in the game, I have not truly had a problem with concerns with time, mostly I play MD when I have nothing to do - or when I intend to ignore something I need to do. (like house work) To me playing the game is one of my hobbies, because when I play the game I include roleplay and strategy and combine the two.

Unfortunately, I have been able to play the game less and less due to real life circumstances (Work, family, job seeking, planning for college) recently. I cannot just magically be there for events of great importance, or to represent the CoE at these events when the date or time is not specified.

I chose "No i dont like the fact you need to be online to know where and when the event is" for the simple fact that I feel that it is terribly inconsiderate to the players who are loyal to the game to just have events whenever the creator feels the event should be- with no planning and no time specified.

This current 'event' so to speak regards important decisions that will likely affect many, many people in the game. It should be thought through carefully and not done without careful planning of the date and time.

Mur, I ask you politely as a player to think wisely before you announce important events - so that the community which is loyal to you will have the fair chance to attend them, especially if the event will affect a wide range of individuals.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol

[BFH]

So could be an option to have an options where players pick to email them the game's announcements? Or a new type of announcements spetially for that. That way the issue could be solved, but then again needs to be an option picked by the palyer. Since it could range a bit into the spam category.

B

Forgive spelling, i'm terribly sleepy + studying + working so I'm a mess.

Edited October 19, 2011 by BFH

[death ray]

I like the way Mur did this. For me it brings a certain depth to this place as a "realm", a life and world of it's own. And having such diverse individuals running it, living it and so forth. All great stuff. Magic Duel along with it's unique attributes truly makes it a one of a kind place to be outside of whats real life. MD life will continue on whether or not you make. If it's something earned and deserved it makes it that much more, if not a challenge, to be there when the time and place is told. It's not the end of the world. Even if it was, it isn't. And if you did know the time and place and still wouldn't be able to attend... then what?

[Deatznce0]

As agreed with almost everyone above; for the important events (such as awarding medals and such) perhaps a date should be specified (Maybe not a reoccuring date or anything but at least a few weeks of notice), otherwise (such as the bulk item giveaways that occurred way way waaay back) I'm happy for them to be unannounced.

With that being said; I think Firs argument is coincidental to everyone in this realm.

[Ledah]

I came here expecting cookies. I am disappointed.

But yeah announce event locations in advance.

[Kamisha]

If I could speak I would like to.
First off and foremost I do have a problem with where the locations are but we are dealing with is a real person versus an NPC. In most games an NPC suffices but in MD most people would not agree or be able to work with an NPC (especially with this current event). Now the problem that needs solving I don't think is necessarily the location being announced an hour or minutes before an event is about to start. The best remedy would be to announce the time of the event.

I do not often agree with murs methods though in the case of location I cant complain as long as he can gives us a decisive time and shows up at least sometime in that hour (which he has not done this time). I have in the past run a few internet groups that used team-speak in order to talk and as long as I gave a days notice and the time I could usually get around 90% of the some 10 people that where supposed to show up. If I where to do that the exact moment I could only get around 30%. A location is not hard to get to but getting the timing right can. So we should see if the guess work can be removed. 24 hours notice is all I ask.

Now for the problems that I have with other peoples plans. First off telling us the location I have no problem with that so we can keep that on the table Chewette and everybody who agrees. Being auto warped to the location once again is a problem because as I have been writing in the unreleased parts of my ethnography re-wright exploration is not simply going somewhere but is a resource. I wouldn't want to be warped up to the MD lands just after entering GG too talk about something that doesn't concern me.

Now I am also getting tired with people attacking the announcement system. I mean really is it hard to look at the top left of the screen when you log in to see if the little text that say view announcements has turned red while you where gone.

As for this event however I do have a problem with location not being announced. Just this one in particular. I mean if anybody brings a case before mur and the accused is not present that person is guilty. In truth I could have just logged on for the very first time and somebody (i wouldn't know why) would accuse me of something and I would be unable to defend. My study in criminal and environmental law tells me that isn't fair. If the onus shifts to you and you cant defend your self you lose and when the prospect is jail I think the idea should not be taken lightly and should not be blind.

I am all for people going to jail if I am online I might actually tune in to entertain my self but both people should and have to be there and with the absence of a time location and even what trails are taking place this is not right.

Just my two cents take it as you will.

[SageWoman]

It is my opinion, that the Forum is a place where Mur should announce well in advance where he intends to be and all other pertinent information. It is a fact that not everyone views the Announcements because of the volume and changes it goes through daily.

I would also like to suggest, that Kings, Queens, Leaders, and MP6's then take this information and re-post it in their private forums as well as private Alliance Page. A simple copy n paste will do it. That way, no one has room to say that they didn't get the information. Do not Kings and Queens announce to their subjects declarations, intentions of War, and other things? The same goes for Leaders of Alliances and I would think Mp6 teach their adepts other things besides how to fight and to send Heat. Work together as a collective, not individualism, and this should rectify the MurGate issues. (Sorry Mur, but it sounded funny in my Head)

[Kaya]

I don't really like having to be online to know when and where you have to be online either. One thing that might at least help a bit is if there were one location for all the meetings that do not require a specific location. that way people will at least know where to go so they can at least idle there.

[Maebius]

I've hesitated to answer, but will have to agree with the apparent masses here.
Surprises and the Luck of being somewhere, somewhen, is a part of Life and MD itself. Stumbling on RP or events is kinda fun.
However, for something serious, like Medals for activity and work within the realm, or to defend against alleged "crimes", without knowing where or when to be except at the last minute, that's a bit Unfair. (Heads contest can be as Unfair as you want, since it's a semi-scheduled Event that lasts over days once you notice it started)

I'm particularly troubled by the part of the announcement highlighted below:[log='Ann. 2055 - [2011-10-18 02:01:59 - Stage 11]']"Day of absurdly blind justice" will be postponed one day. It will take place on day 292 (sometime during second part of the day, not sure a time now). Anyone that has something to complain about an ONGOING investigation, or one that was ignored, be present. I won't take any pms, emails, forum posts.[b] Either be there in person [u]or it means you don't care that much[/u]. If you know you might be accused by anything or are part of an unfinished trial/investigation/complain, be there (even idle!), it will matter[/b]. Location to be announced later.[/log]

I have been idle or semi-active in the realm since hour 10:00 and it is now only a few hours until the "end of the day". No announcement about location yet, and Day 293 is soon upon us. I would be really, REALLY irritated if I stood accused of any crime, and made an effort to be somewhere, (even idle), and have the things I rescheduled be unnecessarily delayed because of "some internet thing". MD is not just a game, but If it purports to be more than that (ie: reflect Real Life) then the social norms of Real Life probably should also be respected. Communication and allowances for the multinational nature of MD included.

I understand, however, that this entire Day of Justice may have come about to light a fire under Council's feet, with a recent perception of inactivity. But Activity should not require one to be In the realm at all times, "just in case" they are needed. Even LHOs have scheduled timeslots to help out, so you can somewhat plan for who you probably track down, ahead of time.

(Note: as with king Firs, this may have come across ranty, but it was meant as an honest reply, not insulting. Good debate only happens with shared openness, after all. )

[Kamisha]

[quote name='samon' timestamp='1319121329' post='94362']
I don't really like having to be online to know when and where you have to be online either. One thing that might at least help a bit is if there were one location for all the meetings that do not require a specific location. that way people will at least know where to go so they can at least idle there.
[/quote]
Mur wouldn't be so happy about that. One of murs passions at least from what he talks about and some of his actions is the idea of symbolism. I don't necessarily know what kind of symbol of justice he may be considering to use in this case if any.

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='SageWoman' timestamp='1319116163' post='94359']
It is my opinion, that the Forum is a place where Mur should announce well in advance where he intends to be and all other pertinent information. It is a fact that not everyone views the Announcements because of the volume and changes it goes through daily.

I would also like to suggest, that Kings, Queens, Leaders, and MP6's then take this information and re-post it in their private forums as well as private Alliance Page. A simple copy n paste will do it. That way, no one has room to say that they didn't get the information. Do not Kings and Queens announce to their subjects declarations, intentions of War, and other things? The same goes for Leaders of Alliances and I would think Mp6 teach their adepts other things besides how to fight and to send Heat. Work together as a collective, not individualism, and this should rectify the MurGate issues. (Sorry Mur, but it sounded funny in my Head)
[/quote]
To which I say: Innocence (although she REALLY needs to start reading the forums.... no idea why she refuses to)

[Muratus del Mur]

I admit i have read just the poll options and the question not the rest so pls corrct me if i missed anything relevant.

The meetings that should have everyone present are announced on announcement days before, I will try to announce the part of the day they will happen, i cant the hour ..if that upsets you come at your own hour and see if i am still around or ask for a log. I announce meetings when they happen, but they last 6hours, sometimes more, that makes them unavoidable if you actually care to be there.

The ad-hoc meetings, those are not planned. and the "entrance fee" to them is simply being there. That is a subjective consideration, but i tried to hold them at various hours so you cant say i favored my timezone or anyone elses. In fact, there is a time i missed 6-11am server....if thats an issue, i will try better,... usualy its empty then.


If you plan to make my schedule, call me to wake me up nicely, talk to me a day before to be sure i dont drink and sing me a lulaby song to sleep well to be at the meeting on time ...woaaa...

but i guess my own time is unpredictable even for me. SADLY..this reflects also in md development .. its how md was always...
the only possible solution to this ...is to ..i dont really know ... but..maybe i will find out


i would honestly freak out in and leave in anger if any community leader regardless who he is would treat me as a user/player with such ignorance and disrespect...and i am not ironic here. Usualy people that doo public meetings are organised people leaders, business man. I am more like a pack leader, more at animal level when it comes to creation and planning. I am not doing it out of disrespect, and i am readdy to let you hold the meetings in my place at precise times, if you like, because i know all my life the organizing and schedule part was and is my problem .

(and cost me a lot)

[Passant the Weak]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1319154267' post='94383']
. I announce meetings when they happen, but they last 6hours, sometimes more, that makes them unavoidable if you actually care to be there.


[/quote]
Not true.
I was not at yesterday's meeting.
I did everything that was mentioned to be there.
I felt abandoned, left away, unconsidered.
Who cares anyway?