Discussion Pen tablets

[Prince Marvolo]

About 2 weeks ago, I went a mail to the council with a question concerning avatars/item drawings drawn with a pen tablet.
I was wondering if pen tables should be used for avatars or not.
My opinion about it was, that it shouldn't be a problem, but I got a reply that said the opposite:

[quote]All submitted artwork should be made with pencil and scanned in. Pen tablets should not be used. Not only does it provide consistency with the art in game, it also provides an added surety that the artwork is indeed belonging to the person submitting, rather than found elsewhere on the internet.[/quote]

Now I must say I do not agree with what the council said.
First, I think consistency with the art in game should not be a problem with a pen tablet, as there are a lot of possibilities with it.
And also, it is as easy to trace an image with pen and paper, than it is with a pen tablet. (as I think that is their

It's just a virtual paper, and a virtual pencil, I personally don't see the big problem here.(I also made a reply, saying this, but I did not get an anser yet)

Now I'd like to ask the opinion of the community, to see what other people think about it.

Should a tablet be allowed?
Why, why not?

[size=2]Edit: Adding quotes (thanks Kyphis)[/size]

Edited January 16, 2012 by Prince Marvolo

[Chewett]

I love MD's artwork, its what first drew me here. The hand drawn nature is wonderful. Hand drawn work takes longer yes, But you arnt just drawing avatars for speed or money.

Keep it in theme, Makes sense to. Mur has always been a stickler for keeping it the right style.

[Seigheart]

If you can't tell the difference between the two, why does it matter?

[Chewett]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1326227407' post='100391']
If you can't tell the difference between the two, why does it matter?
[/quote]

Show me a comparision, i have never seen computer art done relisticly enough to not tell the difference

[Prince Marvolo]

I do not wish to use a tablet for the sake of speed and money
I find it useful to have with me, and to explore new media for art.


In my opinion, there are avatars out there that (again, in My opinion) could fit the MD style better, and I think a tablet can produce images that do fit the MD style.
I will try to make an artwork to show a comparison, when I have the time (exams coming up)

[dragonrider7]

I am more comfortable with pencil drawing rather than tablet. Pencil drawing gives more realistic pictures with detailing and shading, it can also be well achieved with pen also but u need to have the full understanding of how to use the tools like PS/ GIMP etc.

One of the problem which i saw with pencil drawing was that, when i try to convert it to alpha mode with MD avvy color...its hard to remove the dirt, the select tool wont properly select areas intelligently...while if you are tracing the image, you will get a smart pic...but again less detailing
Here is a small comparison..........but i still say both should be allowed...as long as the pics satisfies the rules....
[img]http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s28/anoop4real/Human.jpg[/img] [img]http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s28/anoop4real/mang.jpg[/img]


[img]http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s28/anoop4real/Skelst.jpg[/img] [img]http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s28/anoop4real/skelt.jpg[/img]


This....is some of my tries.....

-rider

[awiiya]

To me, based on dragonrider7's image and others, it's hard to duplicate the feel of a pencil drawn image. I agree with the Council's ruling.

Awi

[dragonrider7]

Please dont reach at a conclusion with my drawings alone...i m just an amatuer in this field......i use wacom bamboo tab which is the low cost version...if u have cintiq and all....you can draw as if you draw in paper......there are lots of talented people who does awsome drawings....so lets wait for more replies

[Brulant]

I'm not what I'd define as a graphic artist, but I've seen people do really successful tablet drawing.
For example, here's an image done by someone with a tablet that has selected a pencil-emulating brush.
[url="http://www.henningludvigsen.com/index.php/henning/tutorial_text/043_ifx_tutorial_digital_pencil_drawing"][img]http://www.henningludvigsen.com/images/uploads/tutorials/pencil_drawing_main_image.jpg[/img][/url]

[url="http://www.henningludvigsen.com/index.php/henning/tutorial_text/043_ifx_tutorial_digital_pencil_drawing"]Image grabbed from here[/url], I do not own the image, etc, etc.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Brulant

[Grido]

And yet I can tell extremely easily, that it's not done in pencil.

Yes it looks good, and yes good drawings can be done well with tablet, but it doesn't look like pencil, which I think is the idea?

[Prince Marvolo]

I'd like to give this image as a comparison.

The three avatars on the left, are three avatars I had currently in my avatar shop.
the wolf was drawn by me with a tablet, the lines around it were for testing, and I decided to leave them there as an example of lines.
I added the background of MD, and made the wolf transparent (that's how it will look in MD, if it were an avatar)


I personally don't think it is a lot different from the avatars that are already approved once,
so, why shoudn't a tablet be approved?


No, it can not reproduce a pencil perfectly, but how big is that of a problem?
Some avatars around don't look very pencil-ish either.

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

I agree with the decision not to use the tablet, but not because it isnt capable of creating similar types of images to what is already in game. My issue is more that physically using a pencil and drawing something has a part of you in it that drawing direct digitally could never ever replicate. That bit of you that goes into the material drawing then gets transcribed as a version into MD too.

Z

[Neno Veliki]

pencil or tablet its still hand drawn. and i think thats what should matter, to be hand drawn. plus with the right brush, pen pressure and stuff it can pretty much equal pencil and paper drawing.
if i already didnt knew i couldnt tell for sure if that marvolos wolf is pencil or tablet.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Neno Veliki

[Muratus del Mur]

there is a certain poetry in normal pencil drawings vs the tablet. It is exactly in the imperfections, not in how good the drawing comes out. A good artist can draw similar on both, but similar is not the same. It is not something i can/will support with too many arguments..either you see it or you don't. It is how i want it to be and thats enough. On your personal papers you can do whatever you like.

I will tell you a bit about how crazy i am with these things.. you know that the torn paper on the borders (md interface) it was actually i paper made so and then scanned? Trust me i can make is electronically to look even better... but it would lack "something".

Maybe in tablet drawings you wouldnt put your pen down or trace unconscious lines while preparing to draw the next part..simply because on tablet you are more aware of the lines you are drawing, and that takes "something" away from what comes out.

That something, its the same somthing present in programming style, in the ideas and in the drawings in md. I don't know how to name it sadly, i am sure i will never know

[Prince Marvolo]

That's something to think about.

[dragonrider7]

I would to remind here that...pen tablet is not just to trace your scanned pic.....you can still draw one cool pic from scratch and if you own a cintiq...you can do a far better.....Now the reason I use tablet is this....I used to draw with my normal ink pen.....while I am studying or doing something else and I am not sure when I am coming up with a cool art.....if you see the pic i posted in the post above "standing man"...I got it while I was in the middle of doing some math and some other stuffs....finally I wanted to make it clean so thats why I use the tablet, but yet the naturality is lost (didnt try shading much though ).

Again pictures having dark strokes cannot be interpretted as tablet ones.....if you use charcol pencils or even black ink pen ( one of the image pointed out by Marvalo (2nd one) was drawn by me with my cello gripper 0.5 ball pen )..u can get the same kind of image.

I personally support avvys if it looks cool and good.

-rider

Edited January 12, 2012 by dragonrider7

[Prince Marvolo]

I think it might be useful to post the council's reply to my mail, for it also brings up a valid point:


[quote]For us, one of the ways we use to validate artists we are unsure about is asking for a high resolution scan to be sent in.
Many times when reviewing these images, we have noticed imperfections and lack of specific drawings marks that indicate that the user has not drawn and scanned the image.

If we were to allow a digital pen, ect to be used, there would be no scan, and for us it would be much harder to be as sure, that they have drawn it.
As you point out, this doesnt help in the case of eye-balling or tracing an image. But it does weed out a number of artists who think we wont notice that the artwork has been "cleaned" while they are calling it a scanned image.

We approving the art are here to try and make sure MD has the fewest amount of "copied" art, we have to afford some level of trust in the community and therefore are sure that sometimes copied art does get through. A scanned Hi Res image of the original before being cleaned up is wonderfully useful to us in checking.
We hope you can see that the fact it is done on paper, gives us more points to check when approving avatars of unknown artists.[/quote]



[size=2]Edit: Something went wrong with copying[/size]
[size=2]Edit: Adding quotes (thanks Kyphis)[/size]

Edited January 16, 2012 by Prince Marvolo

[awiiya]

A note of humor:

The two responses to this typify the different halves that answer such requests:
1. Mur, with his spiritually charged response, citing feelings, "something," that would lost in a computerized drawing, describes the poetry innate in art drawn ny hand.
2. The Council discusses ease in rooting out cheaters.

Awi

[dragonrider7]

Found this cool new tool by Wacom.....

http://www.youtube.com/embed/qA6KQ-eIPLA

[url="http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/Inkling.aspx"]http://www.wacom.com...ts/Inkling.aspx[/url]

-rider

Edited January 16, 2012 by dragonrider7

[Prince Marvolo]

That's quite a neat thing they've developped there!
definately on my wishlist now