Pure Gold, Uncut Diamonds and Lonsdaleite Shards

[Muratus del Mur]

Mining can get you really valuable stuff, but how valuable that stuff is depends on two factors... what you find and how rare it is.

A gold coin will always have the value of a gold coin (only in MD, because the outer world is fucked up long ago already).

A chunk of pure gold or a uncut diamond or a shard however, will have variable value and probably will slowly settle to a fixed currency over time. I actually want to make something semi-automated to allow you to convert such valuable resources into coins! This will also train you a bit about stock market and make you understand much more about the value of things, why its better to buy some times and better to sell other times, and much more...very educative things really

so for now, before the actual numbers come forth, what do you think about the coin equivalent of these resources? Normally it would only make sense to talk about this if you would have NUMBERS to compare percentages and such, ..so those of you that want to say their opinion later on when numbers will be provided, wait for it. Those that have something to say now, i am listening, and it might matter a lot to hear a raw and untainted reaction about this new yet ancient concept of mining for gold.

 

In the end of this discussion, i want have a formula of how to calculate how much one of these resoruces values in coins.

 

Later variations will be possible, alongside with associated roles...like for example an uncut diamond can be turned into a brilliant and considerably increase its value! ...hmm... nice no? I will actually implment this now,

[Blackshade Rider]

I think a chunk of pure gold should be worth around 3 gold coins. if you melt it down. A uncut diamond i feel could be worth anywhere from 1 gold to 5 gold, if its refined it would be worth more. As far as shards and fossiles i think they could go anywhere from 5sc to 1 gold coin.  I think some one with a role that has a tool can put these resources into this tools and it turns it into coins somehow based on what it is and how much there is of it

[Kaya]

In all honesty, I don't think the resources are going to take on as currency. The fairly stable value for gold and silver makes them ideal for trade, and the limited supply helps in keeping it that way. Diamonds however have no history and because anyone is able to obtain them fairly easily have very little to keep their value.

Right now I think I'd value them between a quarter of a silver and maybe two silver.

There are some ways however that could ensure their value. First make them extremely rare. I'll be honest and say I don't know how common they are right now, but their rarity should be such that is you're lucky you find one, maybe two in a day, but just as easily find none. What could also help is make it dependant on the mining skill allowing you to go from maybe once every other week to once every other day when it comes to finding valuable resources.

Gold and silver ore can of course be easily tied into the current system by allowing them to be minted into coins, but that would require some careful fine tuning if you don't want their value to plummet.

[Blackshade Rider]

I  think for gold / silver ores, or pure gold ect should have some kind of tool as i said. Like a melter or sort. Maybe the sand melters in necro could be recoded to melt down these resources . Since the sand melters no longer are usable i think that would be a great idea. Have it to where only pure gold / silver or gold ores/ silver ores can be melted down into coins

Edited April 13, 2016 by blackrider
spelling

[Muratus del Mur]

i did the cutting diamond tool

 

"valuable" resources WILL be usabel as currency because at some point it will be possible to sell them for actual coins, ...thats the ideea , not to use them directly as currency but to have a market that will allow converting them for sure, but at variable equivalent (either random fluctuation or calculated value based on rarity)....i think calculated is more like it...because there are so many advantages in this, like learning about economy and such.

[Blackshade Rider]

Oh Cutting a diamond XD I wanna test it out if i may sometime. 

 

"valuable" resources that can be used as currency is a really good idea. It gives newer and young players that cant obtain current gold and silver coins easily . But Now that certain resources are going o be able to be used as currency i also feel that the value of a gold coin its self may at some point go down in its value. Currently a gold coin is 1:15  gold/silver ratio. With resources that are now valuable this ratio may at some point go to something like 1:20 or 1:25  gold/silver ratio.

So intern things in the market will possibly change and prices may go up or down depending on if the 1:15 ratio changes. I dont think it will though. But there is that possibility isnt there?

[Blackshade Rider]

Here is a few examples i feel could be applied.

Diamond cutter (shared or independent tool)

Description : A tool used to turn uncut diamonds into "Fine", "excellent ", " Brilliant " Diamonds. These diamonds can be used as currency once finished refining 

Cool down : 4 hours 

Output: Create different grade diamonds based on diamond cutting skill

 

Sand melter ( if recoded possibly) Ore melter 

Description : A tool used to melt down rare metals, pure gold, or common ores. Can maybe make coins or armor or even something new.

Cooldown : 1 hour

Output: Depending on what you put in the melter will depend on what you get. Pure gold can give a gold coin or even more if skill if high enough. If rare metals are put in the melter they can put out rings, necklaces , nice jewlery ect. If Common ores are put in it can put out usable metals that can be used to reinforce a lumber barrier. Or even something else .What you get will vary based on skill.

 

Mist of the Shard (Tool for Lonsadaleite shards )

Description: A tool used to turn Lonsadaleite shards into powerful potions or Orbs that contain a token for your creature

Cool down 1 hour

output: When putting Lonsadaleite shards in this tools it can create an orb that holds random amounts of Vital energy when skill is high enough. Some times it can create a random token that can be added to your creature .

 

 

These are just a few ideas i had off the top of my head

 

 

[Tom Pouce]

some tought about MD economy

historically  ressources are "wortless" almost ..

The economy curency is stable because it is base on silver and gold coins that are in limited supply. And the amount in circulation is controlled by MD.

new curency getting in MD is avalable by:
- got being active , voting and getting stuff in shop enought to get at silver or gold coins
- buying credit and getting stuff in shop enought to get at silver or gold coins

curency is remove in MD by donation to MD or selling rare creature by MD MUR concil, gold avatar auction ...

That  system as some advantages
- its stable
- its "fair" everyone as same chances ,, vote or buy credit to get new curency
or get some from other players or TK in quests

if some ressources are convetible it will be a new supply of new curency in MD that can change balance and stability of monitary system.

And if its tie to using some tools if those tools are controlled by some group, individual or land its will made an "unfair" situation as not all players will have same chances to get at it.

Other than silver and gold what is of real value is rare creatures ... and the supply is controlled by MD ..  another factor that keep things stable

So my feeling is that in making changes and new addition in the curency system, one should tought about keeping that "fairness" and stability that MD as keep until now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Miq]

gold ore converted to 3 gc would value the ore at 15 credits(at current rate). or devalue the entire monetary system. I'm not going to even comment on the diamonds and stuff

[Aeoshattr]

Considering how all the ore is likely to be kept depleted, and the chance to get valuables (lonsything, diamonds, gold ore) is LOW, I'm not too concerned. Also keep in mind that stacks of these resources will be processed to only 1 refined resource... so tough luck for people who already have a stack of diamonds (like me, I had 5 uncut ones). I think this will work. The only thing, I think, is that these should be valued according to their rarity... which I believe currently is:

1. Gold Ore (rarest)
2. Lonsything shards (can't spell it)
3. Uncut Diamond (least rare)

[Aethon]

1 hour ago, Aeoshattr said:

Considering how all the ore is likely to be kept depleted, and the chance to get valuables (lonsything, diamonds, gold ore) is LOW, I'm not too concerned. Also keep in mind that stacks of these resources will be processed to only 1 refined resource... so tough luck for people who already have a stack of diamonds (like me, I had 5 uncut ones). I think this will work. The only thing, I think, is that these should be valued according to their rarity... which I believe currently is:

1. Gold Ore (rarest)
2. Lonsything shards (can't spell it)
3. Uncut Diamond (least rare)

Fossils are rarer that Lonsdaleite currently.

Myself and a small team are working on a spreadsheet to determine the % chance of each item. If people are interested in seeing it, please contact me, Sy or Magohi for the link.

----

Mineral ore will be kept rare 'Soon' and therefore, due to such low chance obtaining rare items, this should keep the market in form.

[DARK DEMON]

Diamonds should be the rarest... like maybe one person should find one in all of MD per 2 weeks...

Its difficult to match the new resources with old currency; its too early for that. But what we can do for now is maybe appoint someone a "merchant" role who keeps track of all this stuff and suggests a value (in coins) for them.

[Muratus del Mur]

this is a beautiful economic experiment....but when doing it i have my base of assumptions and beliefs. 

I think md is a closed system, with a pair of in/out entry/exit points. not too long ago (hours) i would have said..trust me i know what i'm doing....but i just realised the importance of OPINION in an economic system. Why is one gold equal 15 silver???? think of that, really, why?

 

In a closed system, you get balance by default, but in md you have a closed system with entry points. i am almost tempted to say it is an open system, but it is not. I can foresee coincidences, cause them, modify balance, etc, all these things that are impossible to do if md would be an open system. I have strong reasons to believe that it is indeed a closed system with a very interesting dynamic.

 

I believe what will happen with these currencies will be a valuable lesson. I also believe that the economy in md can be stabilized at ANY point to ANY value..these are big words i know, and i am open to debate them. Do you notice inflation in md?

 

so:

1) why 1 gold is 15 silver? how is that related to the power of opinion in an economy?

2) is there visible inflation in md?

 

ps. i have ZERO economic studies, the most economy i did in my life was counting the prices on a grocery list. Everything i learned about such things comes from observing MD, from scratch and through experiments.

 

[Muratus del Mur]

its pointless to talk about the rarity of things or to adjust it till we have the first series of numbers to analyze. Normally this can be done mathematically, but i have no such knowledge, i have just good instincts and a highly developed "md sense"

i will do this my way, the way any normal person would, without the power of culture behind him...making same msitakes economic systems did before, but its better , much better like this, because OBVIOUSLY the economic system in the outer world is flawed and a total disaster, so knwoing nothing much about it is actually an advnatage here

[Jubaris]

First I gotta mention my opinion that this is an attack to the current seemingly long-term balanced system of coins, which isn't that often in MD.

Mur, in regards to learning about economy, weren't we able to study it already via rare creatures, or anything rare that is up for trading, why are diamonds a big step forward in that sense?

[Chewett]

54 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

its pointless to talk about the rarity of things or to adjust it till we have the first series of numbers to analyze. Normally this can be done mathematically, but i have no such knowledge, i have just good instincts and a highly developed "md sense"

i will do this my way, the way any normal person would, without the power of culture behind him...making same msitakes economic systems did before, but its better , much better like this, because OBVIOUSLY the economic system in the outer world is flawed and a total disaster, so knwoing nothing much about it is actually an advnatage here

Part of my degree was specialism in Computational Finance including statistical, financial and economy modelling.

Sounds like I might know a thing or two, I  will email you.

I feel the important thing for this is to let it establish its own worth then that can be backed up at a later date.

Say people start buying diamonds for 2 silver each one because they can craft them into something and sell it for 4 silver. Once this becomes a standard (similar to how water and memory stones have become a vaguely standard price) you can make it a standard enforced via other means.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Chewett

[Muratus del Mur]

diamons, or other rare resources of this sort you get RANDOM, ...but thats not such a big deal because even if they are random, the statistic should remain the same. Unlike creatures, resources will have a constant flow, ...crits can be there one day and the other day saced or recruit place closed... plus they age, diamonds dont. Diamonds, generically speaking for all rare resources, will be a constant supply...in other words it will be like forced inflation. their price should drop constantly, unless their rarity is maintained through using them to convert them eventually to coins, or take them off the market somehow.

Diamonds come from inside md, while coins come from outside md, through credit purchases. It is a risky deal for md.

 

rare crits you can make more valuable over time, coins are a factor that you can't control, it is controlled from things indirectly connected to it, liek for example what you can buy with them, or how many people give up trying to cut them to brilliants.

 

Chew. your knowledge about this will be very interesting to hear (already replied to your email, we think exactly the same). I do wish you keep an open mind on md however, its more interesting to learn in practice things you learned in theory

[Pipstickz]

Reviving this topic so we can have some debate about the value of Brilliant Diamonds

Pure Gold has value already, it's basically set, but to my perception nobody wants to trade Diamonds because they have no set value, so their risk aversion / sunk cost fallacy says "Don't do it", so currently they're useless. Let's change that, please! I heard funsire has some secret plans, but someone else's scheming isn't going to stop be pushing forward.

I say we set a value of 2-3gc to begin and see where it goes, or perhaps a set value of a stack of resources no matter how many there are in that stack.

[Chewett]

My question is, If they cant be used, surely they are worthless?

If I make something with the iron resource chain, does it then have more worth than diamonds?

[Ledah]

The same could be said of Gold and Silver coins when they were introduced but the community decided on a (somewhat) arbitrary value for them. In fact, if enough people stop respecting that value for them they, too, may become worthless (or perhaps worth more). 

Personally I don't think the community needs to establish a store of value in these resources. The only reason it was done before is because it was a first: We had nothing to compare them to and needed to begin somewhere. If somebody wants to become De Beers and establish a value that way, go for it I say  

[MaGoHi]

41 minutes ago, Chewett said:

My question is, If they cant be used, surely they are worthless?

If I make something with the iron resource chain, does it then have more worth than diamonds?

i think their value should correlate to their rarity

i also think if you take a piece of iron and put it through several steps of processing or combining the value greatly increases, if its usable even more so

[Ungod]

I suppose diamonds can be used as currency if we decide to do it, by assigning a random value, even if they cannot be used. I foresee assigning that value would create debates over debates, and the currency wouldn't be stable...ever, unless it is stabilized in a dramatic way.

With coins you had a different situation because tgey were 'minted'- bought in shop. This meant that coins had a 'hidden value' that was related to a player's effort, or impact, on md. Diamonds also relate to a player's effort, but it's different in that the very existence of a player was a requirement, something much more profound. 

I'd like to note as well that rarity is a very direct (and common)basis for assigning value, but also very shallow. Use, I believe, is more natural and desirable in determining value.

Now, my problem with brilliant diamonds is that it immediately makes one (me) think of opulence. Trading in diamonds...lol. If you attach a use for it that breaks that idea, it may work.

[MaGoHi]

2 minutes ago, Ungod said:

I'd like to note as well that rarity is a very direct (and common)basis for assigning value, but also very shallow. Use, I believe, is more natural and desirable in determining value.

well i guess the combination of rarity and use will determine its value

[Ungod]

Money is strange...i don't know if that os true, but i watched a documentary years ago about money, and it said in Tibet an ass'(mule) dung was a currency. Idk about rarity or use of that...but it made me feel fuzxy and warm inside. This world can be funny at times, i thought. 

[MaGoHi]

currency can be anything not just money, you just need the participating parties of a trade to agee on its value

Edited May 22, 2018 by MaGoHi