I am publicly Sueing Aethon For breach of contract and breaking an ultimate rule,   

Here is my case

 

I rent out my "Heat solidifier " to those who wish to make heat stones themselves. 1/2 of the coin goes to the TK's to help with sponsorships that they do. 

Please read this forum post. (Just the first post with all the rules Ect.) 

( Rule #5 was the broken rule)

Aethon agreed to everything including the rules. He also stated he had read the rules before i had even told him to read them. He Still instead , put items that were NOT permitted to be used. In doing so he ofc forfits his coin and agrees to a form of punishment as the rules state. 

He also seemed to be in a way i feel is bragging about the items he put in my solidifier. He claims it was testing. However i did not approve that use for my item under the contract and nor did he ask me if he may do testing. I am highly offended by this. 

 

I took the solidifier back within 3 hours because i had suspicion  of miss use. In doing so he did message me and i said what was said. 

 

I ask for 1 week jail time as punishment for breaking Rule #5 and Breaching a Contract 

 

Edited April 19, 201610 yr by Burns
Title fixed

As this topic seems to be locked, I'll write here.

Firstly, you must realise that you yourself should adhere to your terms and conditions before demanding retribution upon those that do not...

On 24/02/2016 at 8:42 PM, blackrider said:

To rent my Heat solidifier it will cost 6 silver coins for 1 full day of renting the solidifier .

I gave you 6sc, you took the Soldifier back 3 hours after purchase. You broke your own contract there?

Secondly, 

Quote

He also seemed to be in a way i feel is bragging about the items he put in my solidifier. He claims it was testing. However i did not approve that use for my item under the contract and nor did he ask me if he may do testing. I am highly offended by this.

  Bragging? Not sure how you came to that conclusion? 

Finally, whilst I don't really want this drama to go on much more, surely: 

Quote

I have just been informed that  Solidifiers Can/or used to be able to load other items in it other than memory stones. This causes the solidifier to break and not work. I am not sure if that was ever fixed. Purposely trying to break the solidifier while renting it WILL result in automatically breaking all rule and will result in some form of punishment 

...this means you have your own methods of enforcing punishment already and therefore shouldn't rely on a court case?

As far as I see, you were given false information about it breaking the solidifier (unless the solidifier itself was the ID used). You have the item returned safe and sound. You've also LiC'd me and said I've lost the 21 hours I was owed and the right to rent it again. Why demand more? Or why make punishments you can't enforce yourself?

The trial topic should be unlocked and this merged, if possible, please.

It wasn't locked, but merged it anyway. Also, funky behavior, i merged this one into blackshades thread, but it got the 'thread identity' of Aethon's post. If you want to create links, bookmark or something like this, you'll have to adjust to the new thread. Sorry for the inconvenience.

~B

Edited April 19, 201610 yr by Burns
Note

17 hours ago, Aethon said:

It wasn't locked, but merged it anyway. Also, funky behavior, i merged this one into blackshades thread, but it got the 'thread identity' of Aethon's post. If you want to create links, bookmark or something like this, you'll have to adjust to the new thread. Sorry for the inconvenience.

~B

Just wanted to emphasize that this part is from me, i want my blue mod text back! :((

An attempt at an objective view on this:

On 24/02/2016 at 7:42 PM, blackrider said:

if you break any of the Rules that you accept what form of punishment is chosen.

Unless a specific punishment is stated prior to the onset of an agreement, the nature of the punishment is arguable, and therefore liable to be voided. Punishment should be agreed in advance, both with the signing parties as well as the party carrying out the punishment itself.

If it is the case that someone who rents the solidifier and puts items within it other than permitted is due for a week jail term, have this agreed to by game admins and state such on your thread. To exaggerate the situation, you could otherwise for instance have asked for a year in jail, on the same basis that you have asked for a week.

 

18 hours ago, Aethon said:

Firstly, you must realise that you yourself should adhere to your terms and conditions before demanding retribution upon those that do not...

I gave you 6sc, you took the Soldifier back 3 hours after purchase. You broke your own contract there?

With breach of contract, it is the first party who is at fault, unless the second breached without knowledge of the first occurring. If indeed it's seen that you did breach the contract made with Rider, then he would be within his contractual rights to collect the solidifier back from you, nullifying the original contract.

It could be argued that part of Rule 2 regarding forfeit of coin, may be extended to Rule 5 where it says about not using anything else in it, and therefore you breached first. That being said, there is nothing stated in his public rules about him reclaiming the tool from those renting, and so if he did not know (as opposed to having a suspicion) that you had done this, then there is indeed a potential breach with him as well.

 

18 hours ago, Aethon said:

..this means you have your own methods of enforcing punishment already and therefore shouldn't rely on a court case?

Not necessarily, just because punishment is a possible end result, doesn't mean it's coming from the one stating about it.

 

18 hours ago, Aethon said:

As far as I see, you were given false information about it breaking the solidifier (unless the solidifier itself was the ID used). You have the item returned safe and sound. You've also LiC'd me and said I've lost the 21 hours I was owed and the right to rent it again. Why demand more? Or why make punishments you can't enforce yourself?

The false info part is irrelevant, doesn't matter the reason for a rule in a contract when you're arguing if it's been breached, as that should have been contested prior to agreeing to the contract in the first place.

A begrudged party is entitled to request punishment on the perpetrator, whether proposed punishment is justified and actually gets carried out is another matter however.

===================

Aethon, I assume you don't contest that you agreed to the rules?

May I also assume that you did, as claimed by Rider, put items other than permitted into the solidifier? Which would be against the rules as he laid out?

-

Rider, breaches of contract that do not take away value from an agreement are considered minor breaches and are highly unlikely to succeed as a lawsuit^[1] and here you have both the fee as well as the item returned. Generally speaking for a breach of contract you would be looking to claim damages from the other side, this would be to cover expenses and any punitive damages you may want to claim for - in other words, asking for a jail term for this is an unreasonable settlement. If you feel you are due damages(additional coins) as a result of this then that could be looked into, however personally I would steer away from a jail request - though that is but my humble opinion on this matter.

Seems the thread is lock again. So if some one wishes to merge this then please do so.

 

If jail time is to much to ask for then i ask for all the items he made with it. As followed

Heat ore

Heat salt

Heat Bushies 

And any other items that were made

Threads merged again... still wasn't showing up as locked my end, if someone sees this as locked where it shouldn't be please take a screenshot and PM me with it, thanks.

First of all i totally agree to giving back the created items to rider not randomly to others

he gave me a few (if you wish rider i can give back or destroy them)

i am not sure what to say about the jail ...one one side sending someone to jail because some suggested its not something i usually do. Also his crime is not so severe in my opinion....but he did wrong after all and  thats what jail is for. He didnt destroy the item, at least that.

Lets put it like this. We are during Birthday festivities. In normal circumstances i would be 50/50 decided to jail him. But i wont because of the birthday.

 

He still has to send the items back and hopefully he didnt create similar for others. The coins he paid for the rent wont be refunded (kind of obvious). I am kind of proud of raider that he put clear rules on the item use. Please update the rules stating that if you break them you DO 1 week of jail for future incidents.

 

In addition to this, on next item abuse, Aethon you will do the jail time regardless of what the renters rules state.

 

 

 

this decision is not final, if anyone thinks an other form of punishment is needed, i am open to suggestions. I was just explaining i don't think this is a jail case

2 hours ago, Muratus del Mur said:

First of all i totally agree to giving back the created items to rider not randomly to others

he gave me a few (if you wish rider i can give back or destroy them

Yes mur i would like every item that he had made with the solidifier that was not approved. Only ones i could find in the loggs were theHeat ore, heat salt, heat bushies. I could find anymore. i will be mostly afk today as well.

Thank you Mur/ chew

Jail sounds fair.  

Agreed with Mur

Bump....

 

Just wondering whats going to happen? 

On 4/20/2016 at 10:49 AM, Muratus del Mur said:

First of all i totally agree to giving back the created items to rider not randomly to others

he gave me a few (if you wish rider i can give back or destroy them)

i am not sure what to say about the jail ...one one side sending someone to jail because some suggested its not something i usually do. Also his crime is not so severe in my opinion....but he did wrong after all and  thats what jail is for. He didnt destroy the item, at least that.

Lets put it like this. We are during Birthday festivities. In normal circumstances i would be 50/50 decided to jail him. But i wont because of the birthday.

 

He still has to send the items back and hopefully he didnt create similar for others. The coins he paid for the rent wont be refunded (kind of obvious). I am kind of proud of raider that he put clear rules on the item use. Please update the rules stating that if you break them you DO 1 week of jail for future incidents.

 

In addition to this, on next item abuse, Aethon you will do the jail time regardless of what the renters rules state.

 

this

an no aethon you won't do jail now, just to get a free visit to the place and get out as a bd pardon in a couple of days. If you do jail you will do it after the bd, if you show any signs of sneaky tricks like this then you will see the meaning of jail, so in your place i would be careful with these little jokes.

so, short version, he has to give back ALL item 'abominations' created like this, loses the coins for the rent, and the rest is probably obvious as rider will probably not rent to him again. Also gets a warning, this matters for next time he does anything remotely similar as a supplement to jail time.

 

the warning counts next time as if you would repeat the crime.

Thank you for your time Mur, chew and everyone else. I am happy to see the out come

Bump. 

 

Wondering ETA of items 

Woaa this is ridiculous, i JUST realise this is also Aethon. Oftenly i read topics where i am needed to take a decision without looking at who is involved, because i dont really care, a fair decision doesn;t need this detail. ok...nevermind.,..questions:

1) rider, did you receive the items?

2) aethon, do you still have them?

 

I am a bit sorry now that i did not pay attention to this topic more and that nobody pointed it out on time , because now instead of a public voting i would know better what to do on a second "felony" or attempt. This is probably an other "missunderstanding" on his part.

 

reply to the above 2 questions, any of you, but note that later tonight i might fix this, or if you see me in-game remind me to do so. the items will be destroyed, rider, i need a name list on pm or better even, here, so i won;t miss any. Note, i will destroy these items regardless of current owner, me and rider included, such items are causing big mess especially with the stats i am working on now.

 

All heat items according to:
http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/17343-april-2016-complete-item-list-numbers/

Heat ore
Heat salt
Heat item
Heat pickle
Heat bushies

17 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

Woaa this is ridiculous, i JUST realise this is also Aethon. Oftenly i read topics where i am needed to take a decision without looking at who is involved, because i dont really care, a fair decision doesn;t need this detail. ok...nevermind.,..questions:

1) rider, did you receive the items?

2) aethon, do you still have them?

 

I am a bit sorry now that i did not pay attention to this topic more and that nobody pointed it out on time , because now instead of a public voting i would know better what to do on a second "felony" or attempt. This is probably an other "missunderstanding" on his part.

 

reply to the above 2 questions, any of you, but note that later tonight i might fix this, or if you see me in-game remind me to do so. the items will be destroyed, rider, i need a name list on pm or better even, here, so i won;t miss any. Note, i will destroy these items regardless of current owner, me and rider included, such items are causing big mess especially with the stats i am working on now.

 

Lol. You have the items and I never even tried saying this is a misunderstanding. Difference here is I chose to break rules set out, why? Well...flopshades why.  Yours was because your wording was...well, bad.

LOL?!?!

Aethon you must have some guts to laugh in my face that you managed to cheat me because my wording was bad..wow. I am glad i saw your true face in time.

anyway, rider, need a reply with the item list of your own.

thanks samon
 

Ps, items named have been removed now, if these where all then the topic is closed.

 

 

1 minute ago, Muratus del Mur said:

LOL?!?!

Aethon you must have some guts to laugh in my face that you managed to cheat me because my wording was bad..wow. I am glad i saw your true face in time.

anyway, rider, need a reply with the item list of your own.

thanks samon
 

Ps, items named have been removed now, if these where all then the topic is closed.

 

 

I laugh because this is all so bloody ridiculous.

My "true" face is more than just what you see, currently you see the "God I'm bored of this idiocy" side.

You can find as many negatives about me as you want, you've actually seen quite a few sides of me, yet due to a bias starting view (of others bitching about me I assume) you've decided to focus on the negatives. That's your choice and I'm not going to spend time trying to convince you otherwise.

Some people hate me, some people like me and know many more sides to me than just this one. That's life.

I guess this is what you get when you back a tiger into a corner, hey Mur?

So if i don not get the items like was said then what do i get out of this. I was asked if i wanted the items and i stated YES! Obviously there doesnt seem to be any punishment for this so it seems. 

Thanks for all the work mur and chew >.>

 

And as far as a list its already listed in this post but here is all items i had found

Heat salt

Heat ore

Heat bushies

Edited April 30, 201610 yr by blackrider

2 hours ago, Aethon said:

Difference here is I chose to break rules set out, why? Well...flopshades why.

Also aethon states he meant to break the rules. So i will continue on with my first statement 

 

I ask 1 month jail and ALLL ITEMS that were made that were not approved of to be returned to me as i was asked by you mur

On 4/20/2016 at 3:49 AM, Muratus del Mur said:

First of all i totally agree to giving back the created items to rider not randomly to others

he gave me a few (if you wish rider i can give back or destroy them)

I had replied to this topic stating yes i want the items. Now it seems they were destroyed? Why ask me if i wanted them then? 

Seems it was pointless to even try. Dont tell me your going to give me the items Mur and then destroy them. You made me feel cheated. Why even ask me if i wanted them if you were going to destroy them in the first place. I feel that was wrong. But i cant do anything about it it seems

 

Note for all of MD:

Heat solidifier renting will now no longer be available to anyone. SO DONT ASK. I will not let you use it. i will not let you borrow it for a second, i will not let you borrow it for the obtaining of the skill it gives. I WILL NOT FOR WHATEVER REASON LET YOU USE IT DO NOT ASK

Currently only one other person will be allowed to use it due to a recent deal. However once the uses are done then he/ she will not be allowed to use the solidifier themselves.

 

Also seems since Mur wanted this topic closed after the said items got destroyed and i was cheated then i guess this topic can now be closed. Seems there was no point in me even trying. 

Thanks 

 

18 hours ago, Muratus del Mur said:

Note, i will destroy these items regardless of current owner, me and rider included, such items are causing big mess especially with the stats i am working on now.

@blackrider - consider taking a short break to think about it all  Friendly advice. I don't think Mur intended any harm here, he said these items are causing a "big mess", so it's probably for the best. I don't think it's worth permanently retiring the tool because of.

Think about it a bit, and then make a decision