Tarquinus

See also Phil Plait, the bad astronomer, on this subject: [url="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/25/trans-cosmic-flow-broadens-our-horizon/"]http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastro...ns-our-horizon/[/url]

It's not a debate thread. That said, I am an [b][i]atheist[/i][/b] as well as a classicist, archeologist, historian, and mythologist, and all I can say is that the formula religion=wars=bad is absurd on its face. If you wish to continue this discussion, please 1) start a new thread and 2) draw on your knowledge of Paleontology to pinpoint the dates at which religion and organized conflict are, respectively, believed to have orginated.

But that is reason to encourage Kragel's thinking - he has much to contribute on this subject.

How would these things be handled in game mechanics - like spells?

For the in-game profile, [spoiler]find the Magic Duel Archives, which are north of the map. The librarian is there.[/spoiler]

Another trip around the star, old son. Celebrate, if such is your inclination.

[quote name='Burns' post='18212' date='Oct 10 2008, 04:04 PM']And second: there's a HUGE difference between agnostizism and atheism, one means believing in nothing and the other means believing that there is nothing, and i can tell you that really believing there is NOTHING is a tough job, only about 0,01% of mankind do that, while about 10% claim they are agnostics...[/quote] That is a fascinatingly garbled set of definitions. Agnosticism is the belief that ultimate reality, or spiritual truth, or whatever, is unknowable. Atheism is the belief that there is no god or gods. There are a lot of shades of meaning in both ranges of belief. Many self-labeled [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic"]agnostics[/url] simply don't care to think about such things as theology or "ultimate truth". I think the vast majority of self-described [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist"]atheists[/url], I being one of them, would accept the statement that "the existence of an omnipotent being, godlike being, or creator of the universe is so exceedingly improbable as to be dismissible for all practical intents." The belief in nothing is nihilism, and as you point out, true [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nihilist"]nihilists[/url] are rare in the extreme. @ Morrggana - please note that Buddhism, in its strictest form, is an atheistic philosophy, and the (East, not Native American) Indian continuum of beliefs and philosophies includes other forms of atheism as well.

[quote name='Tremir' post='18128' date='Oct 9 2008, 07:25 AM']First of all, there's the whole "filter everything through the character's perception" thing. As much as that is admirable, from a role play point of view, I have to disagree with it. I'm not sure how committed to this you are, Tarquinus, but if a person asks you how to attack other players, and your answer is "concentrate, and your creatures will appear before you and attack", because that's how your characters sees it, then you are doing that (probably new) player an even bigger disservice then the mad asterisk wavers you are so derisive of.[/quote] I did not make that clear, and I apologize - staying "in character all the time" [b][u]must[/u][/b] (for me) follow the bounds of courtesy and common sense. When someone is asking me for "meta" advice, eg how the system works, how to heal creatures, etc., I speak plainly. Lucius Tarquinus can sometimes be seen hanging around the n00b zone offering advice and encouragement. I, Sebastian, the player, am speaking there, not Lucius. I, Sebastian, want people to enjoy this game as much as possible, because I love it so very much and want it to succeed. Whenever someone in need of advice stumbles across Lucius Tarquinus and his "apprentice" Penelope LightMoon, s/he will find that we are prepared to drop our roles immediately to answer questions plainly and be as helpful as we can, even if we are neck-deep in "serious" dramatic roleplay. A thoughtful and considerate player should understand how to prioritize. As humorous as your example is, it is not something I would ever say, even though that is almost precisely how Lucius perceives the in-game "reality". Similarly, I will drop my role if I find it is causing distress to other players. I take no joy from being obnoxious for the sake of obnoxiousness; rather, I try to provide an example of someone deeply in character reacting to the "game reality". I am no genius, but I am no idiot either, and I can tell when my role is getting in the way of communication in a harmful way. I try not to do that. Courtesy, common sense, and similar principles advance the fun of other players - and as you can see, I think fun ought to be the point of any game!

[quote name='Vaul' post='18012' date='Oct 7 2008, 07:36 AM']In one such occurrence, one person, who is a seasoned player to say in the least, has come to the sanctuary to clearly sacrifice some of his creatures... During that time he has used the chat to do some roleplaying, in form of invoking the gods to accept his sacrifice. I have recognized this as an opportunity to do some roleplaying of my own, and I have decided to cut in on his little sacrifice ritual I proceeded to explain that it's just a machine and that it performs its function without any touch of the divine... During this, I have emphasized that I am in fact playing my role, and had hoped to squeeze out some cooperation from a player that has clearly put some effort into his own role... Needless to say, I was disappointed. The player took only brief notice of my comments, and has explained that I have my own theory of the press, and that he has his. This was the last second he alone wasted on me, and has proceeded to talk with other old players who happened to be at the same place and talked about different beverages one might be able to buy in those "fictional pubs" that the old guard created seemingly for ALL the sanctuary areas, and in which only them seem to participate. And then they proceeded to ask each other where are the other players that are known to participate in this pub scene of theirs...[/quote] First, that's really depressing. Second, it's not the old guard, but the midgard (pardon the pun). My entire problem with the pubs is that they introduce an element of mundanity that seems starkly out of place in the MD setting. In most cases, I do not indulge other players in their "drinking" any more than they indulge my character's contempt ("Why do you pretend to hold glasses and drink air?"). See also SoulTear's posts above and elsewhere. [quote]So as you can see, despite the best of my efforts, MD is a very very bad place for even trying to cut in on any form of roleplay that already exists in it, let alone starting a trend of your own. Sorry new players, you just do battle and walk the Earth, and do what you will, but play your roles you shall not signed: the old guard[/quote] I understand why you feel that way, but I hope, before you go, you will try to find players who take the effort to have presence and engage the setting: Khalazdad, BlackThorn, and Renavoid, just to name a few. [quote]--- Tarquinus: I enjoyed your post very much, and you have said many interesting things, but your argument is basically this (pardon me if I misunderstood) - "have fun. the system is there. if it's not fun for you, what are you doing here?". Again, excuse me if I turned your message into some kind of a radical variant, but one can't help escape get this kind of message [/quote] That is the essence of what I said. I agree that the majority of the playing community is cliquish and self-indulgent in the extreme, but I wanted you to hear that not everybody is happy about that. Some of us are comfortable being on the fringe, if we must, and if that is what it takes to care who Helen Wasp was (for example). But SoulTear's character is a superb example of one who has achieved an astonishing level of power without really trying to RP in a way that the player doesn't enjoy. [quote]Also, you emphasize the depth of one's character, and that you alone have to immerse yourself into your role and this world and that that's the only thing you really have to worry about. I disagree completely. I'm not sure if you read all the post since my initial question, but I have taken great pains to portray the very atmosphere of the MD world, one that not only makes it hard to play one's role, but is downright overwhelmingly inhibitive to even think about being absorbed into the "system" of RP[/quote] Don't conflate the system and the setting. They do not in all ways complement each other. The setting doesn't make it hard to play your role; the player community does. It is a cavil, but it is still a distinction... and if you look for players who want to engage you, you will find them. Don't assume an MP6 is a good roleplayer or an MP3 is a bad one; if you stay with the game, keep an eye out for characters who have something to say about the parts of the game that interest you. You might be surprised to find that there are more than you think.

[quote name='Vaul' post='17654' date='Oct 2 2008, 11:51 AM']My question is about the "roles". Obviously this involves creating a fictional identity for your account. My interest is how exactly does one manifest this identity ingame? I myself have written a story about my character, Vaul, in form of the "comments on self" document. In accordance with this, I have chosen certain story options as well as magic principles that would coincide with my character, to that extent as it is possible given the game "limitations", or should I say "given oprions". I rarely get involved with a lot of chating on locations, but as I said, I'm very new to the game, I have no doubt that I will develop certain relationships with gamers over time... But is a statement on one's identity (and progressing through the story and building up the stats in accordance with it) enough, or is the "playing" part crucial? By "playing" I mean mainly the chat, as I see little alternative for inter-player interaction, short of battle.[/quote] This section of your post has been addressed numerous times, but I will recap: there are two basic methods of approach. One more or less disregards the "role" aspect of the game altogether; the other assumes the role in varying degrees of seriousness and skill. Neither is mandated by the game's system, though in recent weeks dedicated roleplayers have been rewarded for taking the latter approach. [quote]I don't have to say how this chating is conducted, it involves the : : and the "blabla" in between, and I have found that most players have fun with this in ways that are hardly in accordance with any profile that could exist in the MD world, such as it is. For example: "hi everyone :sits down, has an ale:" ... "you'll pay for your treachery! :fries your head with lightning from eyes:" The first one I can cooperate with, but the second one (which is clearly quite prevalent with a vast majority of players) is absurd, given the nature of the fictional world we're all in (lightning from one's eyes? I think not).[/quote] You are hardly alone in feeling this way. I wrote a post in the Loreroot forums for the purposes of discussing what I consider to be constructive or noteworthy roleplay and why. I note that I have probably made few if any friends by expressing these views, not least because I criticized the popular "pub" in Wind's Sanctuary, and I have no illusions that I will increase my fan-base by mentioning it again here. It is a long post, and I will summarize it for ease of discussion. In my view, successful roleplay in MagicDuel has four elements: [list=1] [*][b]Fun[/b] - Are you having fun? If not, to quote icanhascheezburger.com, UR DOOIN IT WRONG. [*][b]Engagement[/b] - This is tricky for a lot of players, but it's something that any GM will enjoy, and Manu is no exception. Similarly, other experienced roleplayers will appreciate it, too. In MD, this has two subsidiary elements: mastery of the system and engagement with the setting. Learn the system: become a talented duelist and learn spells that work in the game engine rather than between asterisks. Engage the setting: don't overwrite it, but take inspiration from it. Learn the history of the setting. Get involved with the world. You've got a story? Great. Now show how you fit in. When people do silly things between asterisks, they're not engaging the setting, but being self-indulgent. There's a place for that, but otherwise it detracts from the atmosphere. [*][b]Presence[/b] - Portray a character who really believes s/he is in this world. Limit your conversation to IC (in character) as much as you can stand it. If people need help or find you annoying, drop it - that's just common courtesy. Otherwise, BE in the setting, and you help to bring it to life. [*][b]Imagination[/b] - This is really crucial, because it often goes waaaay out of control. If you're a superbeing who can do anything EXCEPT affect the game events around you, you simply seem insane. The key to imagination in presenting a character lies in restraining the imagination enough to present something compelling. She's a goddess, but she's lost her power. He's a werewolf, but he can't seem to find anything to eat, and he's never seen the moon here. She's greedy, but gold in this world seems to breed itself and vanish periodically into the void, so she has learned to hoard something of [b]real[/b][u][/u] value: information. And so on. [/list] [quote]I apologize for the length of my post, I rarely express myself in few words. But given all the things I have said here, is involving with this kind of chat crucial to roleplay in this game, and is the chat important AT ALL to that effect?[/quote] If you are portraying a character with presence, it's absolutely essential. It takes patience sometimes to deal with the fact that so many people are being self-indulgent in chat, and discipline to chat IC in response to someone else's asterisk-mandated behavior. [quote]I'll repeat my question: [b]Is the CHAT [u]absolutely necessary[/u] for acting one's role?[/b][/quote] No; but it really helps. Without chat presence, you're an interesting cipher on the forum or a mysterious stranger. Such characters ARE playable, however. [quote]The "old guard" have their stories, their jokes, they seem to know each other's whereabouts at all times (as every second question is "where is XX?", and every second answer is "he's over at the paper house", or something similar)[/quote] You would do well to learn how they know this. It's important. [quote]and I'm not going to repeat the quality of the "RP", which I think is very poor. But be that as it may - it is dominant, it is established, it is a system that new players must conform to, under threat of being ignored completely. Sure, you'll get an answer or to, a few reactions, if you're persistent with your comments - but if you don't play along with the current scene...you get the picture.[/quote] Sort of. It is possible to play hard against the scene and make an impression. Do you have the guts, the determination? Is it fun? If not... what are you doing? [quote]I myself really don't want to participate in the chat - such as it is. I will have fun, and communicate, but my RP is unfortunately quite unwelcome in the current "system" of chatting. What am I supposed to do then?[/quote] This is where I tend to lose my patience and say nasty things. So I will simply repeat what others have said: find the players who play in a way that is acceptable to you. You will NOT find the bulk of them in the pandemonium of Wind's Sanctuary. [quote name='Red Dragon Lady' post='17795' date='Oct 3 2008, 05:30 PM']As you can see I'm new here too and I have to agree with Vaul, it's very difficult to anticipate for a new player. Would be great if the older players just invited new players in and tell them what's going on inthere, even if they have to tell it over and over again. I also think they could help new players get a role in the story by asking them what they are doing here and where they come from, so they can get their own role in the game. It took me a while to find out you could see their story in the papers, didn't know it wasn't there to attack or something, so tell new players where to look for it, it will help them to get into the game.[/quote] Many people are impolite in the game and worse, unhelpful. It helps to have a very strong conception of your character and a determination to present it. If you don't, you will likely fall by the wayside. If you do, you might well carve out part of the setting for yourself. [quote name='Glaistig' post='17804' date='Oct 3 2008, 10:39 PM']First things first, [b]no asterisks or double-colons or anything used to denote actions you want others to visualize by themselves[/b], except in light play. You cannot depend on explanations to characterize your role. You must communicate your personality through your words, or else the only thing you imprint in the mind of the other is third-person narration. Also, it ruins the atmosphere and credibility because you're demanding a person to work on your part, making them imagine rather than establishing things yourself. Honestly, if you're a good roleplayer, you don't need to magically make things happen with asterisks.[/quote] I understand why you feel that way, but setting-dissociated RP is also known as "weak" RP. I understand why it drives people away; I myself only play the game for the chance to interact with a very small number of other players.... but the quality of that interaction is superb. And I am among the snootier roleplayers you will ever meet. By the same token, though, there is no way to emote in MD chat, and I submit to you that there is a huge difference betweeen *sets Tassadar's tunic on fire with his eyes* and *bows to Tassadar in greeting*. In summary, and in response to all three of you, it is incumbent upon the strong roleplayers to lead by example. The duality you posit, Glaistig, I have managed to circumvent. And yeah, I annoy the daylights out of some people in chat, but it's my right to present a full and plausible character who is deeply engaged in the setting and to filter all extraneous data through the prism of that character's point of view. To Lucius Tarquinus, the asteriskers are mad, which makes perfect sense in a world where everyone was kidnapped by a godlike being, but now everyone has a magic purse, no one can really die, no one seems to get hungry, and the only thing to smoke is nightshade.

[quote name='Harbinger' post='17881' date='Oct 4 2008, 05:50 PM']Peering. Ineluctable. Fading. The Angien Statue At The Gates Stay As A Vigil. It Holds The Seal. Bears Warning To Both The Unhallowed And The Meek.[/quote] Gods are easier to contain than mortals. Tread lightly, "angien," as some here contend against all who presume to narrow the sweep of space and time.

[quote name='stormrunner' post='17729' date='Oct 2 2008, 09:32 PM'](laughs) yes weapons are great way of communicating across long distances your likely looking at the targeting system you need to aim a weapon after all, sorry but I'm not innocent enough to see a weapon as anything but a weapon[/quote] Innocent is an adjective, but not the only one that comes to mind.

MP3: IkkoMachina Ice Wolf BoneShaman Pansel MP5: *ugauga* [color="#0000FF"]Edit: it occurs to me that *ugauga* may have attacked me as part of the heads contest, in which case s/he broke no dojo rules.[/color]

A strict basis in myth was not meant to be implied; how I react to the symbol and how the character reacts to the symbol are not necessarily the same. That said, I think we must acknowledge the impact that all myth has had on human consciousness. The concepts of Marind's ghost, the shades and the angiens, the feud between Gabriel Wind and Daniel Raven, and especially the story of the founding of Marind's Bell are not new ideas, but rather familiar stories told through a different prism. I have argued in gaming articles that a properly constructed myth [b]must[/b] employ resonant archetypes and familiar stories. In my view, the legends of the MD world succeed in this kind of mythmaking quite admirably. Is the symbol at the Gates inappropriate? I think not; despite the frenzied jabbering of some about Enki and other Sumerian gods based on passages taken from the Simon [i]Necronomicon[/i], I doubt most serious players would credit a direct linkage between MD and earthly myth. The use of the name Yog-Sothoth is arguably a much bigger problem, for this is a relatively well-defined character with major implications for the cosmology of MD. Though I cannot recall where I saw them, I find the references to the gods of MD much more appealing. On the other hand, Lucius Tarquinus was a predefined character in another game setting before I signed on to MD, and it so happens that his enemy was Yog-Sothoth. I have had a [b]great[/b] deal of fun with this idea, having Tarquinus harangue the Gates from time to time. This behavior confuses and upsets other players, and I feeel that reaction adds to the setting's sense of depth.

That question deserves an honest answer, but I would prefer that answer came from someone higher than myself in the chain of the game's hierarchies, both fictitious and practical. I can and will say that this event was not set in motion by parties unknown.

There is more than one. That's the only one I can think of at the moment, and he is flagrant.

MP5 Jesus Faction

So it is often said by those who would sow fear and despair. You warn us of... something. I am not afraid of Something. I am not afraid of you, either. As to what I deserve, what care you about that, who will not even tell me for what I should prepare? Many have said I deserve worse than doom, and one of my own acolytes once exacted just that upon my head. I have been destroyed before: many, many times. Enough bluster: speak plainly or be silent, harbinger of fog, chaser of shadows, prophet of...nothing.

[quote name='Nex' post='17138' date='Sep 22 2008, 08:06 PM']i wonder what .morpheus. would say...[/quote] The Shaper is known to me, though I have not yet met him in this world. I threatened him on my arrival, as I recall; well, my nickname (Superbus) is apt, and it was not meant to be flattering. In another world still, the Shaper prompted a woman - a rat-speaker, if memory serves - to observe that "everyone is dangerous." And it is so.

I will give you my guess: I doubt it. Remember the creature who handed you the cube? You have faced it, and you are here to tell the tale. You have died, yet you are here. If these 'sleepers', who sound an awful lot like peasants awed into silence by liturgy, have worse to offer than that, let them come. One grows bored after a few thousand years.

Happy to help. Bear in mind - the more powerful the creature you sacrifice, the greater the reward.

Good for them; it is better to be awake than somnolent. Therefore I am moved to ask: have we as much to fear from them as they from us?

The altar anyone can reach is in No Man's Land.

You're not far away from an altar only some can reach, as well as an altar anyone can reach. The latter is somewhere in No Man's Land.

[quote name='Morrel' post='11673' date='Jul 21 2008, 06:15 AM']Hi, Crimson Games 200 : No voting link Browser MMORPG Exclusive list : No voting link I think these vote automatic, depends on browser or settings ? i'm not sure Games Top 100 : Invalid Link thanks, Morrel[/quote] Hot RPG Games: Click voting link Crimson Games 200 & Browser MMORPG Exclusive List: as reported above Eternal Game List: this site sometimes opens erratically in IE. Top Game Sites: No voting link Apex Web Gaming: Word check and voting link Not exactly crises, but I thought I'd mention these because I keep noticing them.