Given Mur is reworking the armour and weapon system I thought I would throw some ideas out

My new concepts

Weapons and Armour should be harder to obtain than a click

• Resources used to make the item should be used related to the rarity/importance/power of the weapon/armour

• Crafting should require time waiting in the crafting area

• Crafting should require a sliding scale of skill

• Crafted weapons and armour will degrade (following the new Integrity system)

• Crafted weapons and armour should be tradable

New Rarer Tier resources

• We should have some new higher tier resources for items

• Those less advanced are more likely to fail to obtain these higher tier

• Having tiers like "Iron -> Mithril -> Adamantite" for ore could be a start

"Crafting in place" System - Waiting while you make items

• When crafting items you should stay in one place

• Leaving would "ruin" higher tier items wasting all resources

• Leaving would "stop" lower tier items allowing you to continue

• Someone attacking you X times (lower X for higher tier items) would cause you to ruin it

This would allow some value in crafting without it being an instant thing. This follows similar systems converting materials from one form to another.

Crafting should require skill

• You should require specific skills to craft weapons and armour

• The higher your skill, the less likely you fail

• Some higher tier armour/weapons should only be able be produced by "Master Crafters"

By introducing a skill element people would be encouraged to specialise and train their skills

Crafted Weapons/armour should degrade

• We need a "repeatable" element for armour to ensure it isn't a "get once and ignore" like current armour/weapons

• Adding in the integrity system similar to items makes perfect sense

This makes it an actual system people have to interact with, rather than something "one and done"

Crafted Weapons/armour should be tradable

• This lets you specialise in some areas, and creates actual professions

• People can decide to either buy armour/weapons from others or make it themselves

• This encourages general item movement in MagicDuel and is therefore a very good thing for the economy

Feedback Welcome!

I like this idea!

This can be a major boost in activity in players and fighters. While also complimentary to crafters.

Specific craftable armor/weapons would be a good addition and adding a durability system to them makes them more precious.

This can also open a new world for players as armor/weapons can be built Specific to a players needs. Such as defensive, offensive, magic, crafting , experimental and more.

Allowing then to be tradeable is also good for the community when it comes to currency circulation.

I also feel this can provide uses for many resources in the community that currently have no real use other than being harvested.

Crafting a armor or weapon item should consume the whole stack of resource it asks for. Example : ( craft a armor plate.. Requires 100 iron ore... player has 567 iron ore.... All 567 iron ore are consumed.) The consumption of a stack thats more than ehat is needed can also possibly increase the chance for extra durability and or to come out stronger than anticipated.

Maybe a way to incorporate spell stones into the items to make them enchanted? Also a good possibility

14 minutes ago, Blackshade Rider said:

Maybe a way to incorporate spell stones into the items to make them enchanted? Also a good possibility

That sounds like a great addition to add value on top of what it has, then you can customise it!

I've only skimmed, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something Rider has already stated, but I was considering how Specific spell stones could enchant weapons, armors, and tools to make them all more unique (via customization). Memory Stones, Heat Stones (T1 Heat), Heat Tablets (T2 Heat), Fenths, Wiiya, Timeless Dust, every type of resource could have a different guaranteed effect, or a heavier weight on their specific effects based off a wheel of chance with options.

The most obvious choices are heat related concepts, & spells. Giving my Pickaxe ToadSpeak might not be so useful. But what about ChaoticBoost if it shifts all my stats to Mining? What about Weaken on my Pickaxe, if it makes breaking things down easier, leading to more ore per tick? Reinforcing my Pick with Lonsdaleite Shards and Heat might be best for breaking heavy, obtrusive boulders, while mixing Diamonds and Heat might be for more delicate work.

We have no limitations, save what we can't imagine.

2 hours ago, Chewett said:

Given Mur is reworking the armour and weapon system I thought I would throw some ideas out

My new concepts

Weapons and Armour should be harder to obtain than a click

• Resources used to make the item should be used related to the rarity/importance/power of the weapon/armour

• Crafting should require time waiting in the crafting area

• Crafting should require a sliding scale of skill

• Crafted weapons and armour will degrade (following the new Integrity system)

• Crafted weapons and armour should be tradable

New Rarer Tier resources

• We should have some new higher tier resources for items

• Those less advanced are more likely to fail to obtain these higher tier

• Having tiers like "Iron -> Mithril -> Adamantite" for ore could be a start

"Crafting in place" System - Waiting while you make items

• When crafting items you should stay in one place

• Leaving would "ruin" higher tier items wasting all resources

• Leaving would "stop" lower tier items allowing you to continue

• Someone attacking you X times (lower X for higher tier items) would cause you to ruin it

This would allow some value in crafting without it being an instant thing. This follows similar systems converting materials from one form to another.

Crafting should require skill

• You should require specific skills to craft weapons and armour

• The higher your skill, the less likely you fail

• Some higher tier armour/weapons should only be able be produced by "Master Crafters"

By introducing a skill element people would be encouraged to specialise and train their skills

Crafted Weapons/armour should degrade

• We need a "repeatable" element for armour to ensure it isn't a "get once and ignore" like current armour/weapons

• Adding in the integrity system similar to items makes perfect sense

This makes it an actual system people have to interact with, rather than something "one and done"

Crafted Weapons/armour should be tradable

• This lets you specialise in some areas, and creates actual professions

• People can decide to either buy armour/weapons from others or make it themselves

• This encourages general item movement in MagicDuel and is therefore a very good thing for the economy

Feedback Welcome!

It's funny how this works hand in hand with my suggestion for the Crafter's guild, but you know, too blind to see that.

9 minutes ago, Seigheart said:

It's funny how this works hand in hand with my suggestion for the Crafter's guild, but you know, too blind to see that.

Thanks for your feedback

14 minutes ago, Fang Archbane said:

I've only skimmed, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something Rider has already stated, but I was considering how Specific spell stones could enchant weapons, armors, and tools to make them all more unique (via customization). Memory Stones, Heat Stones (T1 Heat), Heat Tablets (T2 Heat), Fenths, Wiiya, Timeless Dust, every type of resource could have a different guaranteed effect, or a heavier weight on their specific effects based off a wheel of chance with options.

The most obvious choices are heat related concepts, & spells. Giving my Pickaxe ToadSpeak might not be so useful. But what about ChaoticBoost if it shifts all my stats to Mining? What about Weaken on my Pickaxe, if it makes breaking things down easier, leading to more ore per tick? Reinforcing my Pick with Lonsdaleite Shards and Heat might be best for breaking heavy, obtrusive boulders, while mixing Diamonds and Heat might be for more delicate work.

We have no limitations, save what we can't imagine.

I'm wondering if the "reason" you embed stellstones in armour is to increase the number of uses, rather than making it permanent?

Say you get 3 casts of acoustic remains but embedding it in armour would give six

10 minutes ago, Seigheart said:

It's funny how this works hand in hand with my suggestion for the Crafter's guild, but you know, too blind to see that.

Edited.

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by Fang Archbane
I let the Ego and Id speak. I apologize.

Just now, Chewett said:

I'm wondering if the "reason" you embed stellstones in armour is to increase the number of uses, rather than making it permanent?

Say you get 3 casts of acoustic remains but embedding it in armour would give six

Stooooooop that sounds amazing, I didn't even consider that. But one question, about scaling. Would we be using the standard Literary-RPG Apocalypse model, or something different? Because as things stands those tiers tend to go from F up to A (and sometimes S~SSS ranks) while also having rarity modifiers. Usually something like

Common>Uncommon>Rare>Epic>Unique>Legendary>Mythic>OverRank

Gets used, but id assume we'd customize it more for MDs unique pallete?

Getting to not just create going forward, but upgrade too... As a resource gatherer, this brings me great joy.

6 minutes ago, Fang Archbane said:

Common>Uncommon>Rare>Epic>Unique>Legendary>Mythic>OverRank

Gets used, but id assume we'd customize it more for MDs unique pallete?

Well that system is already in place for things like the forge, I imagine that would also be a great addition.

Say you get a good weaponsmith who has a lot of skill, their item would be much higher quality

16 minutes ago, Fang Archbane said:

It's even funnier how he didn't use AI.

???

You sure? Seems like this post uses the same formatting as AI

31 minutes ago, Fang Archbane said:

It's even funnier how he didn't use AI.

Sorry I didn't see this originally, can I ask everyone to keep posts constructive thanks!

13 minutes ago, Seigheart said:

???

You sure? Seems like this post uses the same formatting as AI

To confirm, I wrote this post on my iPhone in the gym earlier and formatted once I got home, thanks for asking! I'm generally not a fan of using AI to put forward MD ideas because it helps me think through the idea in the drafting process and come up with additional things.

I'm sure you understand!

Staying on subject here....

An idea can be that depending on the land the armor or weapon is built in can also create a effect. Like if built in lore root it could give a regeneration effect. The regeneration effect could lower the players regen timer by x amount of time. And so of for other lands.

However this would be different if spell stones are incorporated. Spell stones incorporated would add to or add certain types of stats instead of an effect. The better the armor/weapons crafters lvl can determine how good those stats and effects are. Anywhere from common to overpowered.

Along with this possibly allowing the durability system on it is a good idea. Durability can be lowered by many factors with armor/weapons. Factors that can play a role in its durability are [Age, usage, battles]. Usage and battles would be the biggest factors effecting the armor/weapons. While age could be a lesser factor if its not getting used.

Also this opportunity can create ways to customize said items like you said chew.

Another idea is with the crafting of the armor or weapons. To make armor and weapons you need heat. A lot of heat. Certain items can play a role in the kind of heat source you use to make the armor or weapon.

Example::: Heat stones/heat spells provided steady but disappearing heat, while certain RP items that already exist like Embers, Flame oil, coal could provide a more steady heat that does not disapate to fast creating a stronger forge of the armor or weapon and in turn making it more durable.

Also id say it can be a process to make armor or weapons. To truly customize them and make them unique.....

Example:::: To make a sword......

Step 1: Provide a heat source to the furnace (((furnace heat dies quickly or slowly depending on the heat source. If heat source becomes 0/0 then item is ruined)))

Step 2: Provide materials for sword. (((Player inserts 300/300 iron ore))) [ Inserting more than the required iron ore can increase durability but is not guaranteed] begins smelting of metal do not let the heat die out! Materials ready in 8 hours

Step 3: Refine your smelted material using a hammer [i believe a hammer is a RP item] or a heavy object like a larg rock [rocks can produce a crude but useable outcome] refining will be done in 1 hour

Step 4: make a Handle for your sword [this could be rp items that could be used ad a handle or resources like wood/branches] Attach handle. Handle will be ready in 1 hour

Step 5: Sharpen you new sword. Use stone or granite to make a edge. Sharpening will be done in 15 minutes

Step 6: Enchant your sword. Enchanting can fail and will take away chances of Enchanting. 3/3 Enchanting trys remain. If all 3 Enchanting attempts fail your sword becomes to damaged to use. ((((Player chooses to Enchant with Lightening in a jar [a rp item])))) Successfully Enchanted sword with Lightening in a jar. Sword now deals stun damage while in battle. [ or choose not to Enchant and finish the sword as a normal sword] enjoy your new weapon

Any thought on this?

Continuing on one of BSRs points, I did already have a plan to try and use the forge to craft Ghost Tools. Essentially, tools that scale off of your relevant gathering statistic, but do not actually take any resources from the scenes themselves. Much like the herb basket you can gain from the Evolution decks, except it would scale with stats. Results would be rng much like anything else, but with tiers and dedication, we could try and avoid the depletion problems in a completely different manner with Ghost Tools.

If the strength of such a concept isn't so much that it has to be restricted to just the Forge, then being able to make such tools through personal in game means as chewett suggests would be game changing.

Edited 5 hours ago5 hr by Fang Archbane

lloooots of text

let me tell you my current intentions for now, and i will already mix these with some good ideas i saw above, but its not final form. Now its Max speaking, who knows what will happen over long night work sessions...

armor gives you percentage benefits, so cost should also be done similarly, ranging from 50 to 300% , from common to special. How you get the needed resources is an other story, the 50 to 100% range means you can get any, not to many, you just need to refill your winertia and whatever other things they will need (if any other).

The 100 to 300% part, maybe is achievable by alternate ways (here i could need your help telling if so), and/or a change to the winertia system to be able to obtain and hold for a limited time value that you can't keep could help.

possibly fun: I was thinking more in terms of robbing via fights, while you hold more than your max, any lost fight means you lose it all.. (?)


In a way connected to what you arealdy said, here are some suggestions:

Step 1: crafting of such armor items, via resources and why not maybe a dedicated role in the tag dispatcher. It would be a mixer, needing ingredients, and outputting a new type of armor blueprint item, that can then be converted via lots of heat into a forge (no not the current forge, i mean like a blacksmith forge). This could turn each item into its own side quest. Items already have the trading mechanism and auction and all, so this will allow weapons and armor to be tradeable too.

:: gather resource, trade them, mix them, obtain blueprint, consume several heat slots to create the final item ::

Step 2: have armor degrade. In certain fights that inflict skill damage, or even regularly, armor could degrade at a rate of lets say 100% in 200 fights.. maybe 1000?.. number suggestions are welcome. This will cause the need to redo the side quest to obtain them again. This will also lower their auction price hopefully, because i dont want these treated as rare uniques.

Step 3: Tag dispatcher could give dedicated tags related to this and based on those tags you will be able to access blacksmith forges that allow you to convert a specific set of resources into a specific armor item. These should be related to the consume resources, something like: you mine iron ore enough, you then receive a tag dedicated to iron processing, that in turn unlockes a forge that allows you to build a certain type of armor.
Issue: how to divide them properly, is this a craft that will occupy the entire wood, metal industry, do we fit in also other resources into this and if so what numbers and what resources exactly.

Purpose that i don't want to be overlooked in whatever solution there will be:
I want involving time in a specific branch of resource processing and creating certain armor, to not be something you could "get all of it". I mean, .. i don't want you to be self sufficient and have all you need to build all the possible armors and weapons, but i want you to be able to specialize in a certain route. This will cause the need for trade, and interaction.
Issue: how to obtain that? limit given tag to one per such dispatcher so you unlock just one route? Or try to do it via efficiency cap, making the effort to do one thing keep you occupied in such a way that it will not be convenient to do them all, but more convenient to do one of them good then trade. I think the first option would work better.

Summary of intentions:
- make a subset of weapons cost percentages of your winertia
- make all items degrade during fights
- get tags via tag dispatcher based on your gathering habbits
- scholar: use tag dispatcher to give tags that grant access to specific combiners/ public mixers, limited by tag, that will give armor blueprints (tradeable items).
- blacksmith forges should public, but use armor blueprint items obtainable by locked mixers, these should turn a blueprint, some raw ingredients and lots of heat, into weapons/armor equipable items, consuming resources and blueprint items
- repair shops? trade heat and a small fraction of resources to fix degraded?
- fully degraded items should be lost, you need to go allover the process to obtain it again
- redoing the blueprint+resource process should probably be locked if you already have that item, trading blueprints should be possible so holding multiple blueprints is not a problem.


If i missed valuable ideas that could be implemented, let me know. It should be something that fits
I eliminated some of the initial ideas because they felt like overcomplicating something that would work much better if simpler.

About what structural changes i will be willing to make to the weapons system, so you know the limits:

Yes:
- cost to be winertia percentage of your max total and over
- conversion between resources, items, heat, weapons
- degrading weapons, making fights destroy equipment

No:
- variations of output weapon properties (depending on ingredients or forge place etc), at least not for now
- custom names for equipment
- directly trading equipment (only blueprints via items)
- making them cost anything else but winertia directly, they will still cost other stuff to make the blueprints

..getting closer

1 minute ago, Muratus del Mur said:

lloooots of text

I remember a Mur that didn't read lots of text But damn he does write it now

3 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

Items already have the trading mechanism and auction and all, so this will allow weapons and armor to be tradeable too.

This is great and just what I am thinking

3 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

armor could degrade at a rate of lets say 100% in 200 fights

200 fights can be a day of work but I think that's probably fair. Then you can decide if you want to put your "good armour" on.

It could means you decide to wear worse armour until you need to attack @Ledah

4 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

Tag dispatcher could give dedicated tags related to this and based on those tags you will be able to access blacksmith forges that allow you to convert a specific set of resources into a specific armor item. These should be related to the consume resources, something like: you mine iron ore enough, you then receive a tag dedicated to iron processing, that in turn unlockes a forge that allows you to build a certain type of armor.

A lot of people like their "flavour" tags, bespoke custom stuff rather than generic tags. Is this to encourage people to "get rid" of their old tags.

Originally the idea was that the "second" tags would be used for general stuff, and your main tag would be the personal ones. But later that changed to just everyone has two tags.

5 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

I mean, .. i don't want you to be self sufficient and have all you need to build all the possible armors and weapons, but i want you to be able to specialize in a certain route. This will cause the need for trade, and interaction.

One idea we discussed before was stats degrading. Say every day all your processing stats goes down by 1 so you can only focus on keeping one or two high. It would be interesting to see if people could keep many up.

Note: This is not "ALl skills degrade" but special processing ones.

The item usage/gathering streak could work but I'm not sure that's working currently, it always seem to be 0 for me even when I have used stuff every day.

i am trying to to introduce new mechanics here.
so as much as possible , lets fit into what we already have.

Thats also my problem with your upgradeables and why i didnt read ti, because looks to me as mechanics that will just add to the chaos instead of fixing it, at least if it remains just like that. That was part of your assumed projects and i dont claim i know what your intentions are with it btw.

Equipable weapons become a drain for resources via the creation of blueprint items and blacksmith forges that will be using them.. so right there you have a drain for lots of resources that requires nearly no additional mechanics, except the part where the forge gives you an equipable item instead of an inventory item. The rest of it is all based on existing mechanics.

Degrading crafting skills sounds intuitive to have, and i would like to see it happen, but i need to bind it to some mechanics that makes sense in general not just to a particular case. Its more difficult than it sounds, and i would appreciate your perspective on this if ..what could degrading crafting skills be bound to, or how to obtain similar effect? I really dont want to make some skills different than others, imagine the technical mess..

Maybe use spell effects as boosters, whenever you craft something, it will give you a boost in that skill, added to your base skill, and as long as you keep doing that, the boost increases and remains active, however when you stop, effect goes away. Not really degrading slowly as you suggested.

9 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

i am trying to to introduce new mechanics here.
so as much as possible , lets fit into what we already have.

I assume this is meant to say "not introduce"

10 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

Degrading crafting skills sounds intuitive to have, and i would like to see it happen, but i need to bind it to some mechanics that makes sense in general not just to a particular case. Its more difficult than it sounds, and i would appreciate your perspective on this if ..what could degrading crafting skills be bound to, or how to obtain similar effect? I really dont want to make some skills different than others, imagine the technical mess..

Or it could instead be as you learn experiance with one skill, other crafting skills get worse? Rather than degrading over time.

But yes it would make some skills different from others, that would add complexity.

12 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

Maybe use spell effects as boosters, whenever you craft something, it will give you a boost in that skill, added to your base skill, and as long as you keep doing that, the boost increases and remains active, however when you stop, effect goes away. Not really degrading slowly as you suggested.

Is the streak system useful here? It feels like the streaks disappear too quickly but if they slowly went down they could act as a bonus?

yes i mean NOT introduce new mechanics.

streaks if i remember right is unfinished, untested mechanics, could be fixed or removed.. i dont remember now exactly whats there, i need to look

Having one skill grow make an other skill drop... i like that, but not as specific to a skill but maybe affecting all side skills.

hear this: Maybe when something that is 100 grows by 5 (5%), something else at random drops by 5% of its value. Affecting all skills, all the time, core change to how all skills behave.

Just now, Muratus del Mur said:

hear this: Maybe when something that is 100 grows by 5 (5%), something else at random drops by 5% of its value. Affecting all skills, all the time, core change to how all skills behave.

numbers are difficult to estimate, maybe drop should be growth%/2 for example? so its still always something growing

I could start with this core change before anything else, but need number crunchers give their opinion here, i think intuitively, numbers are just colors for me, its difficult to estimate the disaster this could bring

24 minutes ago, Muratus del Mur said:

Maybe when something that is 100 grows by 5 (5%), something else at random drops by 5% of its value. Affecting all skills, all the time, core change to how all skills behave.

I think you are going to want to run some analysis on the stat distribution. Maybe you need to pull everyone actives stats and look at how they are?

Cons of losing 5% or Similar
I know I have like 208k attack and if I lost 5% or even 1% because I levelled water dousing I would be annoyed (as I spent some credits for the attack boost).

Pro's of losing 5% or similar
But... we do need some way of "reducing" peoples insane attack. Maybe people just need to deal with it?

Splitting crafting + other skills

Maybe you need to add "categories" of skills, combat, gathering, crafting and then you can have different measures change within a category.

One idea I had was that for crafting skills:

• You can get up to 100 crafting skills

• Below 100 - You are bad, crafting fails sometimes, etc...

• 100 is "baseline" for proficient person - Everything works normally

• Anything over 100 will degrade at 0.1 points a day

• Anything above boosts your crafting abilities

• High tier things needs more than 100

I think if you treat combat and gathering skills the same you are going to have issues

Just stepping in on the stat thing - combat stats can always be countered with skillvamp and other auras. High VE cam be countered with certain auras too. There is already a certain level of balance.

Massive numbers are only for bragging rights imho.

i revert my view on not splitting stats in two. I thought they are already split , but i checked and the thing i remembered as the split is actually something not used (there is a thing called hidden character, that can be granted via clickies and can hold alternate ad-hoc stats for whatever use)


I agree partially with Ledah that numbers are for bragging only, in a sense thats how it SHOULD be, but in reality they are not

i think we can split like this:

Gardening
Herbalism
Woodcutting
Waterhandling
Finesse
Volition - not sure
Mining
Taming - just me ?
Excavation - just me ?
Filtering
Cartography - maybe this one not, as it is not implying a skill to use but a skill to change you, if you know what i mean

I probably missed other so pls help identify all

I want to make them behave like mentioned, one grows by x%, other random one drops by x/2%

This will allow people that want to specialize in one direction to be able to do so, and those that spread in multiple directions to not lose as much (because a random one gets affected, and overall they still grow)

Once this established, the tags given and how to create weapons will have a base rooted in what skill leads to what . Only some of these are suitable for weapons, but the mechanism applies to all, because in other things we will use them differently but they will function similarly.

For example gardening related skills will be gold for pet food production. So you either build weapons or you feed pets, or both but less effective

Just to add something to this.

Like Ledah mentioned combat stats don't really mean much because everything has a hard counter.

Not only that, but the differences between various characters are so great that maintaining armor would feel like a waste of time (no amount of boost a set of armor can realistically give me would overcome hundreds, thousands of percentages worth of difference in stats).

So in order to make them more useful, would it be possible to create pieces that have a non-combat focus (or at least not strictly attack/defense)? Like something that increases briskness, making it easier to gather heat, or maybe some scout garb that has an AP reduction for movement. Armor that reduces heat scars (or increases, for masochists)? A wizard cloak that boosts power and maybe grants some extra casts? Just throwing some ideas out there...