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Muratus del Mur

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  1. Upvote
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Lazarus in imagination challenge   
    Hi everyone. 
    I have a peculiar challenge for you. All "really good" entries will be properly rewarded, and by "really good" i mean the entry that wins, plus all other entries that i find similarly good but are not selected as the main winner. The reward will consist in wishpoints, rare creatures, and maybe also some of the new things like the enchanted items. Because the challenge is really difficult, i don't want to promise exact rewards, because i don't know yet if the outcome will be at the level i expect, but in any case rewards will be given for your effort, and if someone nails it down and finds impressive ideas for this, legendary rewards will be given (plus possible further collaborations, since this is a task for someone outside md that is looking for a certain kind of creativity).
    The task is to depict a series of ideas for a tattoo (in words or inspirational images from the net). You don't have to draw anything, what i am interested in is just the idea. Of course if you can glue some images together or do a basic doodle, to better explain what you mean, it will help but its not mandatory. You can describe it in words (please not to many!) or google images that fit your idea and describe an adaptation if needed, whatever is easier for you. I will do my best to understand what you mean, and further present it.
    The tattoo consists of a series of "scenes" or symbols, each idea presented in the list below, needs to be identifiable in its scenes.
     
    The concepts are very abstract, and tbh, even i am usually good at this sort of symbolic associations, this time i find it too difficult for me, so i am trying here, because where else could one find such an interesting collection of creative minds if not here.
     
    So, the ideas that need to be "represented" are:
     
    1. Free love (in the sense that someone loves you (or you love someone) without the motivation of any interest or gain
    2. Follow your dream (no specific dream was indicated, but could be connected with point 6 below)
    3. Expect nothing, accept anything 
    4. kill or get killed
    5. Aqua (watter, could be a theme influencing the other points)
    6. Music (not obvious by the classic notes, more subtle
    7. sawadee kap (the "thank you", gratitude, gesture, thai and other similar parts of the world, you all know it)
     
    bonus element: see if you can integrate THIS anyhow.
     
    Good luck everyone.
     
     
  2. Upvote
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from lashtal in imagination challenge   
    Hi everyone. 
    I have a peculiar challenge for you. All "really good" entries will be properly rewarded, and by "really good" i mean the entry that wins, plus all other entries that i find similarly good but are not selected as the main winner. The reward will consist in wishpoints, rare creatures, and maybe also some of the new things like the enchanted items. Because the challenge is really difficult, i don't want to promise exact rewards, because i don't know yet if the outcome will be at the level i expect, but in any case rewards will be given for your effort, and if someone nails it down and finds impressive ideas for this, legendary rewards will be given (plus possible further collaborations, since this is a task for someone outside md that is looking for a certain kind of creativity).
    The task is to depict a series of ideas for a tattoo (in words or inspirational images from the net). You don't have to draw anything, what i am interested in is just the idea. Of course if you can glue some images together or do a basic doodle, to better explain what you mean, it will help but its not mandatory. You can describe it in words (please not to many!) or google images that fit your idea and describe an adaptation if needed, whatever is easier for you. I will do my best to understand what you mean, and further present it.
    The tattoo consists of a series of "scenes" or symbols, each idea presented in the list below, needs to be identifiable in its scenes.
     
    The concepts are very abstract, and tbh, even i am usually good at this sort of symbolic associations, this time i find it too difficult for me, so i am trying here, because where else could one find such an interesting collection of creative minds if not here.
     
    So, the ideas that need to be "represented" are:
     
    1. Free love (in the sense that someone loves you (or you love someone) without the motivation of any interest or gain
    2. Follow your dream (no specific dream was indicated, but could be connected with point 6 below)
    3. Expect nothing, accept anything 
    4. kill or get killed
    5. Aqua (watter, could be a theme influencing the other points)
    6. Music (not obvious by the classic notes, more subtle
    7. sawadee kap (the "thank you", gratitude, gesture, thai and other similar parts of the world, you all know it)
     
    bonus element: see if you can integrate THIS anyhow.
     
    Good luck everyone.
     
     
  3. Like
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Poppi Chullo in imagination challenge   
    Hi everyone. 
    I have a peculiar challenge for you. All "really good" entries will be properly rewarded, and by "really good" i mean the entry that wins, plus all other entries that i find similarly good but are not selected as the main winner. The reward will consist in wishpoints, rare creatures, and maybe also some of the new things like the enchanted items. Because the challenge is really difficult, i don't want to promise exact rewards, because i don't know yet if the outcome will be at the level i expect, but in any case rewards will be given for your effort, and if someone nails it down and finds impressive ideas for this, legendary rewards will be given (plus possible further collaborations, since this is a task for someone outside md that is looking for a certain kind of creativity).
    The task is to depict a series of ideas for a tattoo (in words or inspirational images from the net). You don't have to draw anything, what i am interested in is just the idea. Of course if you can glue some images together or do a basic doodle, to better explain what you mean, it will help but its not mandatory. You can describe it in words (please not to many!) or google images that fit your idea and describe an adaptation if needed, whatever is easier for you. I will do my best to understand what you mean, and further present it.
    The tattoo consists of a series of "scenes" or symbols, each idea presented in the list below, needs to be identifiable in its scenes.
     
    The concepts are very abstract, and tbh, even i am usually good at this sort of symbolic associations, this time i find it too difficult for me, so i am trying here, because where else could one find such an interesting collection of creative minds if not here.
     
    So, the ideas that need to be "represented" are:
     
    1. Free love (in the sense that someone loves you (or you love someone) without the motivation of any interest or gain
    2. Follow your dream (no specific dream was indicated, but could be connected with point 6 below)
    3. Expect nothing, accept anything 
    4. kill or get killed
    5. Aqua (watter, could be a theme influencing the other points)
    6. Music (not obvious by the classic notes, more subtle
    7. sawadee kap (the "thank you", gratitude, gesture, thai and other similar parts of the world, you all know it)
     
    bonus element: see if you can integrate THIS anyhow.
     
    Good luck everyone.
     
     
  4. Upvote
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Else in 6 New shard abilities   
    I created some new shard abilities, so that other creature species can benefit from sacrificing crits with shard abilities. I remind you that the "Storage Shard" will not give any sacrificng benefits, it is meant only for shards transfer.
     
    Here are the new abilities, consider them UNTESTED and a startup example for whoever (from A25 team) wants to create more similar.
     
    Beasts: Stomp
    Every 3 turns halves the vitality of crippled enemies, leaving them still alive.
    Winged: Wings Supremacy
    Initiative gets multiplied by the number of winged allies.
    Grasan: Horrific Posterior
    Once every 2 kills, shows his horrific posterior to the public, shocking everyone. Shocked creatures have no initiative.
    Grasan: Reckless Hug
    Once every 5 rounds hugs all the unlucky creatures, crippling them for the next 2 fights

    Angiens: Judgemental Mirror
    On the first kill, forces creatures that sinned to harm themselves with an attack multiplied by the number of enemy sinners in the fight.
    Grasan: Toxic Fart (slot 5)
    Accumulating a lot of gas over 10 rounds, the Grasan fart will intoxicate random targets with an attack rating increased by the creature age in days. The older the creature is, the more toxic the fart will be. The fart affects only the creature in slot 5, once.
     
     
    Overpowered shard abilities could be used on specific slots, limiting their overall effect on the battle. Please report bugs and issues, or new ideas 
  5. Upvote
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Chewett in MD 17th Anniversiary Plushie Auction   
    The following items are available to bid on with your hard earned plushies from the 17th birthday.
    The plushie auction will be run like a standard auction, 14 days minimum time on auction, it finishes 7 days after the last bid on any item. (So the auction will keep running and all items will be open until all items have had a bid older than 7 days) 
    Your bids do not have to be purely based on our own number of plushies, You are permitted to "group up", The only requirement is that if you make a bid you must state whose plushies they are, if they are a grouped contribution. E.g. 20 from me, 20 from Eara. If there are any questions ask! Failure to have the correct number of plushies will result in being banned from all entries on this auction, and potentially future ones. Please bid carefully.
    Item 1 – 2 Use Kill item Item 2 – 9th Anni creature Item 3 – 11th Anni creature Item 4 – 13th Anni creature Item 5 – 15th Anni creature Item 6 – A Wishpoint But Chew, a Wishpoint needs to be earned, why are you auctioning one? Well its quite simple, earning a shedload of plushies is worth a wishpoint, that’s logic! Item 7 – 500 shards on any creature of your choice (This cannot be split across multiple creature types) Item 8 – Reindrach (full tokening available) ID: 605420 Age: 4583 Item 9 – Rustgold Drachorn (full tokening available) ID: 485146 Age: 4818 Item 10 – Shade Horseman aka Horseman aka rider aka CID 22 (full tokening available) ID: 696293 Age: 4217 Item 11 – Full tokening of 5 creatures (These must be your creatures) Item 12 – Tainted Angien (full tokening available) ID: 810350 Age: 3279 * All creatures listed above with (full tokening available) are eligible for free FULL tokening (or tokening based on your requirements)
    Note: As the auction progresses I may start setting minimum bid increments to speed up the auction.
    Good Luck!
  6. Thanks
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Invie in To hide or not to hide A25 announcements   
    Keep showing them to everyone. Knowledge is power.
  7. Thanks
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Mallos in Caretaking your heads v2   
    A secret heads contest is beginning today until the end of the month, PM me for further instructions on how to participate.
    The winner will receive one 10 Gold Note
    Second place will receive 3 gold coins.
  8. Thanks
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Fyrd Argentus in Minted Coins Stack Weirdly   
    Yes, looks good.  Thanks!
  9. Thanks
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Chewett in Minted Coins Stack Weirdly   
    This should be fixed, can you confirm Fyrd?
  10. Upvote
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from lashtal in Formal Exchange Request   
    There are a couple  reasons why i made this item.
    There are not enough active people to have such a service happen naturally, and having Chew provide a public service exchanging notes and coins makes no sense.
    Instead, this item could be regulated, provided access as part of a quest, or do whatever you consider needed, but in a way that will take this kind of activity away from Chew, and provide a way for anyone to split notes into coins regardless of number of online people.
    Gold coins and such, are not resources, so they should not behave as resources. If you have 10 gold note and wish to give 1g, you should be able to exchange these.
    Also, i noticed that also due to lack of activity, the chat got flooded by notices. Having notices of same type reduced is also good. 
    When things change and there will be more likely to have such an exchange service able to be supported by the community and not by one person, the coin mint might be taken back, but for now i think its at least a good tool to have. 
  11. Upvote
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Chewett in MD 17th Birthday 2022 Survey Results   
    Below is the summarized set of responses from people, I have tweaked the wording and merged some to simplify the responses.
     
    Responses for What would you change about the event and why (+5 plushies)
    ===============================================================
    Generally people have commented that Chewett should have more help, and do less Note by Chew: Lol Some suggested making the celebration shorter than 17 days, some suggested making it longer. Some also commented it should happen more frequently One comment was relating to being able to get medals without attending the Awards Ceremony Note by Chew: As discussed with Mur, this is by design and we were present for multiple days and timezones Some people disliked the plushie rain, some people really liked it Note by Chew: This probably sits in the right spot, but further opinions are welcome People really liked the A25 mist/rain events and wanted more People suggested adding a leaderboard for plushies Note by Chew: This sounds like a nice little idea Generally people wanted more group/story type events, and land type events where collobration is key Lots of very positive comments here (saying they wouldn't change anything)
    Responses for What do you think worked well about the event and why (+5 plushies)
    ===============================================================
    The daily scene location was great, lots of really positive comments Mist events where highly rated by many people (many of the responses mentioned it) Seeing locked scenes and old friends was highly rated by many Contacting old players to see how they are/drawing them back Note by Chew: We need to improve this going forward so its not me manually messaging people!
    Responses for What other ideas could you suggest to make next year's celebration even better? (+5 plushies)
    ===============================================================
    More group party games Digging up old history Cooking quests More mist co-op events (lots of comments about this), people really liked the "changing realm" stuff New player friendly events like the Easter Egg Hunt Note by Chew: This should run yearly, Many thanks @Fyrd Argentus  Having a more clear daily host would be ideal Note by Chew: I want to move back towards having "day hosts" and giving them a lot more powers but this year I was more busy with Life. Contacting old players again, marketing emails, etc Note by Chew: I did a lot of this myself, but we need to improve this for next year as it takes masses of my time Plan some official "Realm changing" events like the mist. Note by Chew: I plan to do these kind of things more and more now, the Mist event is a good example and I hope to finish this shortly

    Responses for What other events would you want run during the birthday? (+5 plushies)
    ===============================================================
    Lots of comments about more mist type lore events Some ideas about giving players usable items such as shovels/etc, and special items and gifts Simple quests that give small rewards (such as plushies) Lots of comments about cooperative land events (lots of comments about mist/group type events) More MDScript events Trivia/puzzle quests
    Responses for Any other comments about the event (+5 plushies)
    ===============================================================
    Plushies raining down had lots of positive comments, and people really liked the increase later on Lots of different events was generally favourable Someone wanted more quests, and suggested the reason people weren't running quests was because they didn't know what was allowed Note by Chew: Anything really, just message me next time There was a comment that the birthday was "hard to do from the US". Note by Chew: I don't really know what this means because typically we run events in good EU/US timezones. I think generally we have issues with people in GMT+8 -> GMT+14. Whoever said this can you message me if you want to explain further please Lots of good comments about the work of the GM's, quest makers, and A25 team.
  12. Thanks
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Chewett in MD 17th Birthday 2022 Survey Results   
    For the Likert scale questions asked them to rate everything from 1 (not important) to 5 (very important):
    ===============================================================
    Combat events - Average 2.6

    ===============================================================
    Hunt/race events - Average 3.1

    ===============================================================
    Story writing - Average 3.5

     ===============================================================
    Story telling/remembrance - Average 4.0

    ===============================================================
    Ceremony/Role Play/Medal ceremony - Average 4.3

    ===============================================================
    Group activities (like mist collection) - Average 4.5

    ===============================================================
    Plushies and prizes - Average 3.8

    ===============================================================
    Souvenir creatures and items - Average 4.2

    ===============================================================
    Forum contests - Average 3.6

    =============================================================== 
    Hangman and other games - Average 3.4

    ===============================================================
  13. Haha
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Else in i am angry   
    Out of compassion for the people that can't read that much, summary:
    Mur angry on you being lazy. Many important announcements on my part will be skipped, if you want to discover the good stuff from now on, for a while, you will have to discover them on your own.
  14. Downvote
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Else in Spell Focus Items   
    I would really like to see item spells other than kill, bringin and chase. Its really boring to see these asked for over and over again, you fail to understand that not being able to do these specific things easy, is part of what puts things in motion. I don't mind having an other kill item, if its done in a way that really makes sense, like for example mixing together player named rp items with something fancy like cause fights. In other words, several players attack AND DEFEAT a third player, and then use an item with his name on it, like a drop of blood, to kill him ..that would be OK, ..why are you so lazy to think one step ahead and ask something really nice, and you get stuck asking the usual 'kill','summon' bla bla.
    its a bit of a stretch, the item is about the wine, not the bottle that could be used for a fight. I am open to make all bottles and bar items able to start a bar fight, if anyone asks with a specific item as initial sample. 
    If nobody asks, i will leave it untouched and maybe one day in the future an other use will fit in this place.
  15. Thanks
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Kyphis the Bard in Spell Focus Items   
    Bringin spells are capable of being attuned to a specific person. If you can find someone who from a roleplay perspective (avatar, RP history, character docs, etc) fits the role of being your war steed then you could possibly get a version of Bringin that is attuned to just that person.
    Spell casting via items isn't restricted to just the explicit existing spells. If a spell of the same type already exists and the modification is appropriate, then modified versions of some (but not necessarily all) spells can be possible. Gotta have a strong enough argument to justify it though 😉
  16. Thanks
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Fyrd Argentus in Spell Focus Items   
    bringin and chase spells, and other admin spells will not be added to items , except if you have an item that is incredibly well suited to such a spell, via its name or description.
    As i promised long ago, and i keep to promises, items description equivalete reality, so whatever the item name or description said, if that functionality is available, it will do that.

    Items like "big red button" could be used for "emergency meeting" but this is just a possible use, the button could very well do other things, it is not bound to such a function, and since such a function is admin stuff, it will not do that. I will keep an open mind to allow it one time use of a massive summon spell or something, ..i am not sure if a one time use will be a problem or not.
    Other items like "secret ingredient" could have a better use as a wildcard item in cauldron mixers. 
    Many items suggested here, like "super glue","Smoke grenade", etc , do not exist, so PLEASE only suggest items that do exist ONLY

    Going through the replies so far, i could pick only these possible enhancements:
    Blue Silk Boxer Shorts - boostbriskness
     
  17. Like
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Chewett in So... I'm getting married on Saturday   
    As you may know, I have been super busy the last year and its primarily because I have been arranging my wedding! Well this Saturday is the day  
    I'm planning to make a guest book of MD'ers wishes so if you wanted to leave me a message send it on the google form:
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdZPPhiOkxAt19Nxbvgl-xmzj1WduUeSIfiKYSSuG868Ts0Bw/viewform?usp=sf_link
    It was streamed and I can link you to it if you message me!
    Anyway, hope you are all doing well!
    Chew
  18. Thanks
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Kyphis the Bard in Spell Focus Items   
    With the introduction of spell enablement through item possession as per announcement 5700, I thought it might be fun to talk about what sorts of items might be appropriate to add spells to.
    https://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/5700
    While the assumption is most items won't get spells on them, that doesn't mean we should limit our discussion accordingly. Rather, if an item seems appropriate then I think it fair to include it in the discussion, and considerations like how easy to obtain it is should be discussed after. Just because an item has a common version available right now doesn't mean a rarer version can't be introduced - after all, if a version of the item is already in the realm it's not much of a stretch to contemplate something more fitting down the line.
    Here are some of my suggestions:
    Locate
    Maps
    Binoculars/Opera Glasses
    Give Vital
    Healers kit
    Bandages
    Chaotic Boost
    Potion bottles
    Strange foods
    Mirror Ritual
    Mirrors
    Pure Water
    Move Lock
    Manacles
    Heavy Weights/Rocks
    Army of the Dead
    Bag of bones
    Cursed objects
  19. Haha
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Ivorak in Value of Wishpoint Discussion   
    Is me being you still a theory? If so, this entire story sounds very trippy :)))
  20. Thanks
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Fyrd Argentus in MD Oragami Contest   
    p.p.s. It has come to my attention there was some grousing about this award.  MaGoHi had an inspired genius of an idea, eventually met all the requirements of the challenge, got political support for his idea from other players, and provided some serious entertainment on an otherwise dead day in the realm.  If that's not worth a wishpoint, I don't know what is.  I could hardly deny him a wp since he met the rules - THAT would be favoritism.  If you don't like the attitude his RPing portrays that's between you and him.
  21. Haha
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Chewett in Value of Wishpoint Discussion   
    Is me being you still a theory? If so, this entire story sounds very trippy :)))
  22. Upvote
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Fyrd Argentus in Value of Wishpoint Discussion   
    Say what?
    In my interactions with Mur, two principles have been made clear.  There should be a range of wishpoints available from easy to insanely difficult.  And secondly, every offer must be open to everyone equally.
    For me to deny MaGoHi a wp for finding a clever way to solve the challenge would violate the second principle.
    Bear in mind, this challenge sat on the forum for over a year without anyone even trying it (to my knowledge).  Frankly, as a practitioner of origami, I saw it as a very simple challenge, designed to get people doing stuff with MD creatures and interacting with others -- in this MaGoHi succeeded.  All MaGoHi's shortcut did was substitute a creative insight for knowledge of traditional origami techniques.
  23. Upvote
    Muratus del Mur reacted to Ivorak in Value of Wishpoint Discussion   
    Thanks, @Fyrd Argentus and @Muratus del Mur. Your explanations help clear up some things for me. Appreciate the responses.
    Oh, and what I said about "being the first to meet the requirements of the quest" doesn't apply in this particular case (I missed the dates on the original post, oops). But in general I think we should be careful about wishpoint quests being a race, particularly the easier ones. For example, it would be disappointing for a player A to miss out on quest reward because a quest was posted in the middle of the night for player A and player B happened to be in a different timezone and was able to complete the quest first by cutting corners.
  24. Haha
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Chewett in Value of Wishpoint Discussion   
    Oregano, as in the spice, maybe, a seed or something, but origami certainly not
  25. Upvote
    Muratus del Mur got a reaction from Ivorak in Value of Wishpoint Discussion   
    Ok ... this deserves a detailed answer, to clear things, for everyone, i hope.
    This reply is equally valuable to those receiving wps, but also to those giving wps... see it as something to learn from 
     
    First impression when i heard this, was... "close the gates, hide the buttons, Fyrd has gone crazy"...  but obviously its not so.
    But..there is zero indication of recklessness in his decision, he was entitled to give wp for whatever he considered fit (in the hope he will follow my guidelines regarding this), and it was nothing suspicious or hidden in his actions. In this case, we need to think things more and at least try to understand the reasons.
    When someone gets the ability to give wishpoints..it is EARNED. This also means that I trust that person's judgement to use wishpoints to shape activity in md, but also shape the value system overall.
     
    What is the ultimate purpose of wishpoints in md? It is to unlock the most powerful things. They are the most potent attractors, but also a way of confirming ones involvement and overall achievement in MD. Wishpoints and medals are probably the highest form of acknowledgement, its MD's way of telling "you are awesome".
    Because of this, they need to be treated wisely. It is not good and absolutely not healthy to the community to keep wps just something given for impossibly difficult tasks, but also we must not give them for trivial zero difficulty activities. It takes time to understand where wp place is in MD's balance, but an easy way to see it is this "Wishpoints need to be special". 
     
    Let me present you this situation from a different perspective too... lets put things in a balance:
     
    The good
    - This wp managed to put things in motion, get people active on a dead topic, and revive a one year old quest. Of course a wp would have revived anything an anyone, anytime, its their side effect, but doing this without falling in the pitfalls of favoritism or risking to be lame, its difficult. This particular use was bordering the symbolic, not the abuse, at least in my view.  
    - I am happy that he remembered what i said about balancing easy wp vs difficult wp. There is a tendency to make a mix and keep things 'moderate', or even to forget to give an easy wp once a year or so, instead doing just difficult wp quests. I think about 25% of wps should be easy to get, but still SPECIAL, not trivial. To balance those wp's i give a a lifetime of hard work, just one symbolic wp.... its a balance
     
    The bad:
    - Giving a wp for crumbling a piece of paper, is certainly NOT what i had in mind when thinking of this wp system. Old players would turn in their abandoned accounts if hearing a wp was given for this. I think Fyrd failed at presenting his decision the way it deserved to be presented, but then again, maybe he considered he is not supposed to offer such explaining.
    - The really bad is that this filled up the need for super easy wp for the entire year, but offered a wp to someone that could have earned a difficult one instead, missing to give an easy wp to someone with less potential, to solidify the community better.
     
    and the ugly:
    - It looks to me that the winner of the wp did not participate to actually win it, so the wp reward was kind of a stretch to conclude the quest. I am not sure if this is good or bad yet, but it is ugly. I can't think of an other way to do this to avoid it being ugly, so i might have done the same.
    - we, those that can reward wp or code a wp reward in a25, must find it easier to decide when to leave a wp quest without a wp reward. Having no one left to reward does not mean that person should get it all, at least not when it comes to wp...other rewards maybe.
     
     
    Wishpoints should be given for a wide a range of opportunities. Its important to avoid giving wp just for the most elaborate and difficult to solve puzzles, same as it is important not to give wp just for too trivial things such as this one. There is room for these extremes however.
     
    I think Fyrd managed to play with fire successfully and give a wp that was so absurdly trivial that it was special. By doing this he completed the balance of "easy to get" vs "impossible to get" wishpoints. I am sure he will not follow this by an other easy wp, and that giving a wp for the 'crumbled piece of paper' was a premeditated and well planned act.
    That being said, this wp will not be confiscated (in case anyone wished that).  One thing i would like to remark about this, is that next time one gives an easy wp to someone, should make it less possible to achieve it fast, and less out of desperate need of finding a winner no matter what.
     
     
     
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