Jubaris

really... if you want to take out free credits do it, but give me back my 22$ that were "stolen"!!! I only need those few bucks more, and I'll finish by christmas getting everything I need.

happy birthday people

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1286439838' post='69805'] If you don't want to be "below" then there are 2 options: you can be beneath or equal. Both mean you get power. Ergo:I was right: you want the power and since you can't get it (at least for now) you choose to throw mud into the others. [/quote] since you busted my motives to live in an equal-chanced society, you automatically make me wrong, yes? I love your logic. I do not seek dominion over others. [quote] You experienced a punishment for your actions. The only difference is that it came from Firs and not Mur. If Mur would have been the one applying the punishment you would have said nothing since he's (hopefully) the only authority in MD that you recognize. [/quote] So I was punished by another player for interfering with his politics with a method that is punishing all those who violate the actual game rules, like robbery or such... It would be ok if it was part of an RP event, but it wasn't, and the process was done via privileged fixed authority abilities. Yes, Mur is the only authority that I respect here, cause it is his game. He is making the rules, so he can say kings can be overpowering that way if he wants, and I'll respect that and respectively leave. It functions like that at the moment, but if the essence was making an independent alternative world, I think forcing Kings was a wrong step, and since Mur probably won't comment here I would like to see what community thinks about this as well. (tho if an anonymous posting system isn't introduced, I highly doubt someone will speak about this, since in 99% cases, the king of the following person would treat it as a personal attack, like I hope Lifeline doesn't picture this as, cause it isn't ). And if you all agree that the game from Mur's point of perspective should be (which I like very much if it is so) independent world, say it so. That's how I picture the nature of all this... I would like Mur to re-assure me if not. (you know... a game... new world, testing the ability of people to start a new culture, new ideas, art...) About it relating to culture and creativity... ideally a king should be open with any projects, gatherings, ideas, for people to do them themselves, but humans being humans, King will force his own interpretation of the land. Even if he doesn't suffocate the others, the whole process of asking someone "can I draw this, can I write that" when referring to a land, isn't that boosting. Just picture a famous artist in reality that makes art projects related to his nation/people and that he has to ask the president about the permission to make a work everytime he wants to do it. That wouldn't affect the artist at all? I expected that number of strong/independent individuals in game such as yourselves (shadow, Z, Chewett, Pip... etc.) to respond to this, since I don't think you care about someone becoming offended cause of your opinions. That is a nice start.

damn it... I just woke up, my eyes don't see a thing. examples I mentioned, Akasha, Chewett, Z (as an example cause of Tengri) and such have certain privileges, yes even forum mods at points, it all gives some kind of power - influential or some other one. @Shadowseeker there for sure are fixed authorities, and they might not be that damaging directly, you're right, it certainly does influence me more in a psychology way in a sense that when I have someone above me that I see limitation of movement.... (but no matter how little one authority moves the slider of balance, he/she still moves the slider. - that's another thesis unrelated to my main post, since I concentrated on the thing I consider a main issue - supremeness of a king that naturally limits others. If you're a supreme that means all others are below. You can pick another land, considering that every mainland has its supreme ruler, and that leaves us to Tribunal, but Mur said he has plans for it as well, so the idea of Tribunal remaining as the last "free" land will run out eventually.) Even so, those fixed authorities are placed, such as kings were meant to change the system of MD in a way, but after... almost a year now, I see no happenings on a macro level between kingdoms, nothing going on in their kingdoms. In reality, every kingdom made it's flag, crest, myths, songs all those things that make a culture, but where do you see that here? That's why I think the divine intervention of Mur for kings wasn't justified. Where's the culture of a land that gives it's people identity and form in differ to others? @Z of course it's Mur's game, and I treat it that way, if he says "ok I want the game to look like this and that, and I'm going there... etc." it's cool, it's totally his right. I'm just asking for some clarifications on the nature of the realm. I think that it was supposed to be an alternative world, where people come and develop their characters in whatever path they want to go, research, culture and such, with as less outer influence as possible, and I'm saying that few things disturb the nature of independent development of a "culture". @Burns I'm didn't say you guys are abusers. I said that controlling the LHOs and having it's majority in Golemus, gives you much higher influential power than it would be without that. That is a clear sign of privilege to me. I pointed it out as an example, I'm not saying now "tear down the LHOs!" no, they are the productive members of the community, I pointed it out how little innocent thing can be a major privilege. @Chew Grido, at least before Rendril came as far as I know, was valued (in the circle of people I knew) as a closest thing to a moderator. I'm not saying Grido now abuses the abilities, but the very fact that he has them, gives at least a level of mental power over others. I didn't address everyone directly, so if some questions are still unanswered or I did it blurry, please state them again [b]edit for Dst coming in a minute... didn't see her post[/b] of course it has relations to the whole issue there was with Loreroot, but not cause I want to replace Firsanthalas as king how you imagined in your paranoid dreams, but cause I experienced the whole "supreme ruler" difference in the world, and I saw a mistake in the functioning of a game with an example I experienced. There's isn't a balance when you can only retaliate with sticks and harsh language, and the holy "vote that he is evil" option. When you have a king that is the only representative of a land, and you can be either in his interpretation of land's subject or get da hell out. What gives anyone the right to mark "Golemus" "Lorerootian" "Marind Bell" "Necrovion" citizen (I'm pointing out an example of why it cannot work, I'm not trying to do anything about Loreroot here as DST gently implied, I just want to move on, but I don't want to run in circles and adapt to being below just to somebody else) and about your place in the world, it's a story of its own the rest you mentioned can be answered via my responces to others.

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' timestamp='1286401139' post='69781'] If you look back into the history of MD by about 1 year, ie before Kings where instituted, you will see Golemus with a King who happened to be yrthilian; Necrovion with a Queen who happened to be Peace, the person who appointed Jester; Loreroot with an emerging King at the end of the Councils reign; and MB with an informal Military leader group that included Lifeline, the current King. During the Necrovion/Golemus war, When Grido refused to participate, yrthilian ex-communicated him. It was this exercise of power that caused the formalizing of the Kings position. This sort of event had occurred in the past, as well. The point I am making is that before "Mur appointed" the kings, they where already there, doing what they where doing. The only difference is that now they can do it faster (a good thing) and they have a treasury (ALSO a good thing). [/quote] MB military leader group that you mentioned is an example of "getting power" via that transition, and influence, and not privileges by Mur (as far as I know) yes Yrthilian was king before the kingships came, so was Khalazdad and then Peace. (kingships only finalized it for other lands - Loreroot and Marind Bell) But for Necrovion story is a bit different... in background of MD you have the shades that reside in Necrovion, they are powerful beings and they chose Khalazdad to represent them in human world, which he did... Necrovion is not that open for self-interpretation as other lands are. [quote] And in addition to that, I get a fair bit done with the other neutral alliances, most recently I am helping Curiose and TGW to set up their Story Night Project. The only input any kings have is the sponsoring of Wishpoints if any stories are considered worthy, and from the rarity of WP's being awarded on story nights in the past, it is probable that they won't need to do that very often (unless we get some spectacular writers who have hidden until now). Almost all of the sponsoring for prizes comes from the Nuetral lands. So... not really getting why you are blaming the "creator instated" authorities '~' I noticed in your post that you said that was the easiest example of what you where thinking of, but it might be a lot better if you gave, y'know, MORE than one example? (PS I have been awake for maybe 30 minutes, so may not be articulating myself properly. If anyone doesn't understand what my post is meant to be saying, please PM me to ask >.>) [/quote] you want more than one example of people having privileges, with them not being kings? -Akasha, Grido, Zleiphneir, Chewett (all those who have jail/teleport to GoE spell, or any moderating spell) ... number of those in hidden all are, except Zleiphneir, part of a mainland, which doesn't make them that much objective, they add influence (perhaps not purposely) to their land, and they certainly shift the balance with those privileges. Notice lots of LHOs being Golemusian. If not for Grido/Burns influence there, do you think all would come to golemus out of those LHOs?

[quote name='Shadowseeker' timestamp='1286388692' post='69772'] So let me summarize: You are saying all the authority placed on certain people within MD has created a status quo, which allows no creative outburst, or external influx from new players...and you blame this off the accumulation of power?(So you are basically saying we should abolish that, even if you never said it directly.) You post is a bit hard to read, so I'm just asking to clarify here. [/quote] one of the points... yes. On macro level you have no happenings, not to mention no conflicts, why? Cause all kings need to maintain healthy relations with each other, why? Cause a king profits the most when he has good relations with every other king, with that state person in the example has "help" when something is needed to be asked out of Mur, when someone needs to be sanctioned or such, lots of gains in differ of being in a conflict, where you have absolutely nothing to gain. Most of things were developed during wars, in RL. Meaning if you have a competition, you progress much faster. Where's the competition here??? I see no independent community here, with it's own macro-social interactions. But yes, pre-set authority given to certain people created status quo, and for example "supreme ruler" authority given to kings limits pretty much everyone else there. But in essence every power that can be abused given to player is great balance shifting (and rules in MD are so easy to exploit and to interpret in your own way) in the community. It's not about people being "evil, rude" or such, but it's about overpowering abilities given by the almighty that do not represent "the reality". There's a difference when you build up your influence, become stronger, gain some WPs and such than getting everything served on a plate. Game that has handicap on most of the population, isn't that encouraging. It's like having a one party system, only way to change it if you have most of population shouting they want changes, and what fool would go against the party?? And you all know that in totalitarian regimes (according to that lesson I mentioned too ) there's no space for creativity. It would be fun and challenging if something like that was made with basic player tools, but this state is pre-set, which is a mentioned handicap. [quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1286388996' post='69773'] I differ significantly on the following: You find fault with the system, I find fault with the individual. For instance, you say "Fixed authorities make limitations to our thoughts, and remove the freedom of ideas." The thing with authority is that each person chooses to follow their leader; no one forces anyone to become a citizen, and in truth there isn't anything physically limiting any one of us. Kings can't imprison non-citizens, and besides harassment (which is against the rules anyways), they shouldn't be able to significantly affect the game experience of any person not directly a part of their land. Instead of being limited by Kings and rulers, we are limiting ourselves by following them in the first place. My creativity, my writing, is not limited in any way. If Yrhtilian (my King) were to tell me to stop writing, I wouldn't give a moments thought to leaving my current alliance. Perhaps by pointing the finger at those in power, you're trying to get around the truth: you, and no one else, is responsible for your creativity and productivity. Own that. Awi [/quote] I already kinda answered this when responding to Shadowseeker. But to add, mainlands have a pre-set advantages in resources, WPs, influence when lobbying for anything... Not to mention every mainland is interesting in nature, while on the other side you have neutrality which some like me don't like. Question: why should Yrthilian be able to change your Golemusian homeland? what gives him the right to erase your homeland? It wouldn't affect your writing cause your writing, I assume, has nothing to do with Golemus (or you can easily compensate it with something else), while for some people, lands give much greater inspiration, but if you are limited and dependent of another person in that land (every mainland), it crushes inspiration (again for some...), I for one don't like to follow anybody else's thoughts that blindly, not unless that someone really impressed me during period of time and inspired total faith in decisions, and even that, I like to keep "Rhaegar's touch" of individuality somewhere there. Golemus (example) is not Yrthilian, Golemus is Player A, Player B... Again, I repeat, It's different when Yrthilian (I'll continue using him as an example) fights his way to power with normal means, and claims ownership of Golemus at point when that just announces something that was de facto already known, but still in that case he becomes ruler of "Yrthilian's version of Golemus" which points out that others can have their own interpretations as well and are free to try to apply them, in difference with current state where this is now pre-set, where Yrthilian represents Golemus and everybody else can tag along or go away. (unless he manages to turn the whole realm writing a petition that he must leave... which is kinda retarded-balance-shifting rule in my opinion, and in any case it's very hard to turn whole realm against you. Those kind of rules make a popularity contest out of MD.) @Fyrd LHOs fall into that category of privileged (even tho less damaging ones, they're still in that category of privileged, with Grido being the main hot-shot there ). Newpapers are a sign of culture, if it is used in game via clickables, PMs or such, and if characters do it for in game reasons and not those out of character ones, it's bad when privileges come - they getting newspaper like special bar next to the announcement log one, getting ability to send everyone emails... that leads the project out of MD. When a project gets helped by Mur in any way, it loses it's "soul" of an RP event.

A number of topics were made how MD isn’t fun anymore, “doesn’t have its magic in Magic Duel”, etc. I guess most of you hated/disliked/was annoyed with them, cause “all they did were complaining” or such… Well I’m giving one of my analysis of MD (so you better hear me out or I’ll start slapping! ), from one of the numerous perspectives. I would also like to hear the community’s opinions about it after this is read (rather than the usual spitting). It’s not that I am trying to achieve anything concrete with this, but few thoughts fell into my mind which I saw interesting, and wanted to give them complete form, and possibly share it with you. Pointing out the real fun (at least to me) of the game, no matter the new features or such which are sometimes interesting and fun luxuries. Don’t know how much of you had Sociology in your classes, but I recently had a lesson about Culture and Personality, which just confirmed my opinion and gave it stabile form. Among many things, it says that a person, after accepting necessary amount of culture and social norms, beliefs (general principals), knowledge, really becomes a person then when he/she is emotionally motivated on creating new values, that only on this way the person becomes creatively integrated into the collective life of the community, avoiding traps of becoming “stripped-personality individual” (I translated the quote roughly cause my English vocabulary is still weak, I’m sure you get the point), becoming authentic and effective. I’ll get to that, which I think it is a main issue in MD as soon as I mention one more thing. The lesson also mentioned Conformists, they are in essence the people who don’t make anything new, “do not make waves” nor troubles, ones who are pleasing everyone, they follow the already established form of culture (in MD almost nonexistent, in my opinion) without individuality, who have their own opinions sometimes but in public opportunities do not agree with them . Those people can also be productive if they become active in the culture they represent, if they follow those norms in their creations (is it music, sports, science, philosophy) and with that they become integral part of the culture’s future. With that I pointed out that every person can have (SHOULD have) its function in the realm of MD (the original is based for RL -well… societies in general- , but MD is world in small. Most of alternative worlds are supposed to be that way anyway). The main problem I see in MD is that it suffocates those creative personalities at this period, in my opinion cause of many authorities that were made, not authorities that fought their way via influence and such, but by fixed conditions (all kinds of moderators, kings… all powers assigned by Mur to inspire some kind of automatism that went on totally wrong way). In my belief and according to the lesson as well, for person to reach that stadium of creation, it needs to have freedom (space to act… and such). Easiest (but not the only one!) example for me to show to you, are the kings. Leaders of communities, if any, should be made by their very own communities , step by step, whatever transition it consists of, even by force if enough power in one faction to do so, just like reality shows us, that is the whole point of a culture developed by the very people that are participating in that game and those that are supposed to be non affected by outer influences (creators of the game), that they make events happen on their own, and I think that’s what Mur originally wanted as well (please assure me that I am wrong here if so, in that case I have one extra illusion about MD, and in that case I’m packing my bags). With that fixed authorities made, you have few options – be dependent and follow a king’s (lack of) vision, with one naturally having some sort of limits and such (even that would be ok, but I don’t see any action on macro level in MD at all), or be an outcast, part of no-man’s-land doing absolutely nothing of interest regarding culture/art (which is the whole point of alternative worlds and books… of course this doesn’t affect the other group of people who are here to solve bunch of player made sudokus and such which I don’t care about on the level of game population, I mean I’m not trying to degrade them here, they’re cool, but I’m talking about the “RPG” in MD here at the moment) Fixed authorities make limitations to our thoughts, and remove the freedom of ideas. That’s why I look at Mur’s rush decisions on kicking the balance in its bottom by assigning authorities (especially the kings, since they are not meant to be objective) as… I have to go easy now so I don’t provoke “men in black”, and I’ll just say wrong – in my opinion. Now, look the period before such authorities, (of course game evolved in features since then, now it has much more possibilities in draining your mind but like I said that all that isn’t important but the very essence.) you had communities and people such as Khalazdad, Nelya with Blackthorn (number of you can hate him if they’d like, but I spoke with the dude, and he’s a genius) and tons of others everywhere. Tell me now, where do you see, not a creator, but a creator that managed to swim in this ocean of “order”? Nowhere. You have authorities with conformists on their throne not willing to let go of the privileges they have, and you’ll have status quo unless in a period of year or two Mur decides to change something like it happened with the RPCs (same psychology for them like now with current authorities, tho I wasn’t that much part of that RPC system to know or speak about it’s flaws, from this point it looks like it was “lesser evil” or even productive, but others can fill the space here.) Even further, every criticism isn’t treated critically but with level of hate for disturbing the status quo, most even considered as personal attacks rather than questions about the system. … I'm interested to see the level of community's awareness... what are your comments and opinions? I'm not nearly done, but I would prefer to continue with answering some questions, or hearing out someone else with an already established opinion about the subject rather than me making dozens of paragraphs with at the end, nobody reading it.

yes, my apologizes for this. Fyrd, I just sold 1 BP to goldfinger, and will sell the other one to you for 1 gold. (will pm you the ctc) alright Apophys, I'll put you in best offers list.

or maybe: MRDud(e)g(u)ard ) happy birthday dudes

that's why I suggested letting people to fight (in sense of forcing the creatures needed to be trained, not damaging other people with negative xp just for the sake of destruction, and not putting creatures that "ensure" farming wins at such level. Maybe someone has few drachorns, what do I know, there you all complained at February's angiens for example), cause in "wilderness" you evolve instead of having restrictions without a base. It's like having laws without a police, maybe it can work for a transition period, but you can't keep it for ever and ever "as a good and proved system". While having that "semi restricted FFA" as Redd called it when he heard about the idea, those who feel like helping those in need, and I think mostly about the mp6s, should stick around the Marble Dale Park and heal the wounded, give attack/defense boosts to those that are weaker... even handicap (in sense of fighting spells) those mp3/4s that are "a bit" stronger than the others, for the sake of fun and balance, so everyone has a chance... it's an idea. When that was presented I got raided by number of people who glorified the current system of Sparring Grounds, how it works just fine... well it doesn't look like that.

bump my bad, Bloodpacts have no tokens, and rustgold has only claw1

[quote name='Aysun' timestamp='1285783930' post='69367'] Thanks for the link! From what I can tell with slavic culture is that there is only consistently, say, Veles and Perun that are consistent throughout the society through time as a whole. Otherwise it's all exceedingly specialized from there. The reason why the greeks work better for this sort of thing than the slavs is because they were slaves to record keeping. They recorded everything- ideas, government tallies, and even day to day accounting. You don't have these sorts of things in slavic culture outside of specific civilizations (such as Kiev and the early Russian empire) because writing didn't exist before the missionaries came in and created it- and by then, they didn't care about recording when all the old pagan festivals and feast days were. The reason why I think Kiev Rus will perhaps work the best for what you're proposing is because as a centralized civilization, there would've been record keeping of some sort. I'll have to look into that, but it's hard, if not impossible, to run a city without record books. I'm newly researching this stuff myself (and I find it a fascinating coincidence that you've brought it up here), so I need to look into that theory. If you're worried about Kiev Rus being influenced by outsiders, you must understand that there is no such thing as a 'pure' culture. A culture, at its essence, is an amalgamation of ideas from different places. If we go back to the two staple gods of Slavic paganism, Veles/Volos is merely an import of the proto-hindu Vele for example. So even if we took a broad look at slavic culture, there is still significant outside influence. With that said, I think Kiev Rus might be the closest we can get to an original significant Slavic civilization that will have some sort of recorded record of city feast days. We can both look into it, though. [/quote] yes, you're right the best thing I can do, except surfing on the net, is to notify you on related-important stuff I found out after reading that book I mentioned, but who knows when that'll gonna happen. In any case, count on that, if you stick around for that long, which I hope you will There are dates to find for sure in Serbian part of Slavic culture, since many pagan celebrations stayed de facto with de jure Christian meaning, and celebrations that go around one Saint are pretty often, every house (religious one) has its saint chosen to celebrate when the day comes. It requires some digging up but it's very possible to find original Slavic festivals there. I'll try to google some Slavic festivals in general later on, to find some exact dates to let you know about. Also Awiiya just said something that I messaged Akasha long time ago, that calendar in my opinion should be focused on MD events and not the outside world (but while it has outside influence, I want Slavic part toooooo ), which would be really nice to see.

count it as 31 you can disregard that one you signed as 32. you're making a mess into the topic X_X troublemaker you are

no, I wasn't making a new one, I was pointing out that Amoran's 30th isn't a conspiracy theory. It's a fact

yes, it's true, different tribes interpret events differently, but the essence should be the same... It didn't create that problem for other civilizations, for example we are using Greek mythology in the calendar, yet every city in ancient Greece was a separate state with it's own cult of god/goddess... I'm not that of an expert on Slavic mythology (that's why I acquired that book I mentioned) to tell more about all of this, but I know enough that it deserves a place in the calendar, and I'll see if I can help out for it to get there Some celebrations can be found here as well (oh that Google ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_mythology

I am calling out for people to make documents about "legendary" players of Marind Bell. Examples: Liberty, Lifeline, Chewett... their biographies (I want only facts), achievements, and such. reward is one WP from King Lifeline to the most valueable "researcher", and for the rest, I guess I'll find some adequate prizes as well. At least credits for helping in the clickable that will follow on the columns bellow Marind's Roundabout Help Marind Bell record it's past, and make it progress in culture [b] edit:[/b] a friend asked should the text be lengthy or in short paragraphs, so I'll make it clear, the more you write, the merrier, since I will have more space to maneuver when finalizing the project. oh one more thing, I'm not looking for Achieved players that joined MB (example: lightsage), but players that made their achievements as MBians (example: lifeline)

30) is not a satire btw

before of course. Slavs adopted Christianity much before 1650, and as a religion it got exterminated, but some traditions remained. South Slavs inhabited Balkans, and first Serb state for example was founded in 9th century. All Slavs have same background, but perhaps there are number of additions in the culture in West/East/South Slavs due to different influences. I recently bought a huge book that is used in university of Belgrade about Slavic Culture and Mythology. Due to school duties, my plan was to research it over next several months or more, but I guess you won't wait for that long. There are many celebrations that just changed their name when Christianity was adopted, but the tradition of them stayed the same, there's bound to be a lot of data on the net. I would like it to be implemented into the calendar, cause Slavic culture isn't just something irrelevant, Slavic nations have large influence in the course of history and culture (as do the rest of the Calendar cultures). Be careful about Kievan Rus tho, cause they were originally Slavic nation ruled by Varangians, so Nord culture is bound to have some influence there (if you search concretely Kievan Rus culture)

oh... my bad. Although I would like to use those 3000 lyrics, I must reject. For Santa I will settle only for something interesting, not pure coins or something soulless as that (and lyrics is not enough to fill in the hole) maybe my subconscious wants to keep the Santa, who would know... for BPs ok, I'll update the post. I'll check for tokens later on and let you all know here (the creature is not mine, but given by friend, so it takes some extra time)

I would really like that Slavic dates get implemented into the calendar of world cultures

updated my first post. forgot to mention, I have 2 BPs, and I will take two best offers to sell them out (so I'll avoid "put one silver on first BP", i hope you people won't grudge on that) same goes for a rusty, have two of them. Santa I won't sell for 10 credits. Too low in my opinion and I don't need credits that much (I needed them before for slots, but angien VE got removed... good thing I didn't waste any credits)