Burns

creatures and items will keep the coins flowing, technically endlessly, practically until a few players who don't care for the market have all of them, as easy as that ^^ as long as there are younglings with coins who want creatures, no matter whether lorerootian, necrovion or birdies, we will sell those creatures to them, and buy rare shop-creatures (say a bloodpact with claw 2, or a joker with anti-freeze, something along these lines) from those who have the luck of having such creatures. technically, this could go on and on and on, but practically, there are players who don't need the help from others to get whatever creatures they want, and while some of them will set easy quests to give out their coins, some won't, and in the VERY long run, someone who has no intentions of joining up with that market and who has all creatures and items s/he wants will own all the coins and they will be gone from the system. you couldn't prevent that from happening even if you got a neverending flow of items, unless those items were slightly overpowered (anti-freeze to all your creatures, plus 1000 attack to all your creatures, something along those lines for combat, complete invisibility, hiding name, avi and mp and giving a new chat profile instead, teleportation... for RP) because the 'common' things like plus 20 atk or plus 3000 vit are definitely not worth a coin for a veteran... so, my idea of keeping a flow up would be the constant creation AND destruction of really valueable things, like those slightly overpowered i already mentioned, like an invisibility cloak which has 5-10 uses, a teleportation spell that can be casted 5-10 times, or a total anti-freeze that can be used 5-10 times before dissolving itself... such things, some that are worth the work of getting them ^^ however, this would again make it necessary that someone controls those items, which brings me back to the monopoly problem, and therefore i further suggest that such items are made by a hardcoded mechanism in certain limitations [i can't tell for sure, but to keep them valueable i'd say one per month], but NOT for a certain person/themselves, all they can do is creating the item and then the item will be randomly given to a player who has been active in the past 48 hours, in that way you can keep it flowing without having some persons controlling them [power compromises] too good that you revived the topic while i was having a creative phase, i wouldn't have bothered to think back else :lol:

not as awesome as my new pimped grasan ^^ i was hell of unlucky with those tokens... had to buy all 12 to get one claw 2 on an all-attacker, and all my bloodpact got was a claw 1 >.< but now i have a claw 2ed skill vampire, and priests with 2000 power XD

i decided to get some tokens on some creatures that are useful and sacced all the rest in the process... regeneration +8.056 energeticimmun +0.143 tradesense --0.429 briskness --0.742 initiative --0.9 defence +315.969 attack +1005.4 power +106.069 luck +4.12 me likes =)

did i give you the permission to post my letters? ;-) and imo private things go to private messages and the public things go to public forums... but i guess you can have different points of view on that ^^ plus i thought what starts in PMs can also end in PMs, but eh, i have never been that good at telling the differences between private and public matters and you know that your comparision is nowhere as good as you'd like it to be, because i am not argueing about getting money back or something... all i did was questioning the share the shopkeeper got, the share the farmer got and the share that went somewhere else... for that they won't laugh about me, in fact they will twist around the answer as much as they can because they don't want to give in how much they kept LOL and you know, i'm not inclined to start it all over again, but you were unsure about it yourself, weren't you? else you could well have stated in the initial post that you would keep 50% for yourself, and spare all the aftermath-troubles, right? and if you held that fact underboard knowing that you would gain from it/lose something if it got public, then i have nothing more to add on who of us two is more or less wrong...

and i'm dearly thanking you for it, now i have a good impression of what deals are fair and which are not in the eyes of the person who has a strict 'no foul deals' policy see if i get it correct: 2x5 hours chatting plus a few forum posts rigthfully earn me creatures which are worth 300 coins on low prices? i guess i get the impression... thanks for clearing things up for me, you know... i wanted a precedence set to see what is and what isn't a so-called foul deal =) i hope you don't take that all too personal, i still like your opinions... in fact i like them even more now ^^ i just did what i felt necessary for getting what i wanted, and to me that topic is done unless someone chooses to pick on me :hi:

[quote]We are going to have a slave auction to benefit the MD Market Fair![/quote] Second sentence in the slave topic... personally, i was doing it for the market because i was curious to see what you can do, and when i was reading the part about profit 'being shared' between Kragel and Krish i was like 'Oh well, he is having the trouble, he might as well have a few coins for it'... and personally, i FEEL cheated because i have been used for something i do not support at any lenghts and was given wrong impressions on matters... when you do that in RL, it's being called 'wilful misrepresentation' and contracts made on that base are not worth the paper they are written on... I'm not going to say what exactly his 'share' was as i'm still not sure about a few of the things he kept, but there are some players out there who are more observative than i am... and if i remember Kragel's price list correctly, even those i know about (but can unfortunately not prove myself) are worth more than what i'd call 'a share'... therefore i feel abused and cheated, and call for further investigations [i like going done that next step... soon i will reach 5th floor...^^] EDIT: oh, @ Kragel [and all the others wondering]: this is my business because i have volunteerd for it, so everything concerning the slave auction is also concerning me and i'm not sticking my nose into things that don't concern me, like you stated more than once already

interestingly enough, i asked in a very polite manner and you reacted in the same way just yesterday... and Shadow and i were not having contact since, if you are wondering about that =P Now, let me make one thing VERY clear: I DON'T CARE! BUT, you were saying that people who cheat others into bad deals need to be hanged, i have that in a PM from you and it's common knowledge, and now let's sum this up: you got very potent drachorns (maybe amongst the strongest creatures available) FOR two lazy afternoons of doing nothing but taking the next offer... and you KIND OF tricked people into believing that they were doing it for Krishka and the Market-thingy... SO, in conclusion: either you think about your definition of a cheating deal again, or get a rope and hang yourself... as i don't care, both is okay with me... PS: By now i know why you are being all bitchy in the last few days,..., but don't log in to let your steam off, get a punchingball!! THAT is low and muddy, to throw around with insults and caps instead of giving in what you are doing... PPS: you have no idea HOW low i can go to get truths, my west is bright enough, and those who have nothing to hide have a much easier time when asking others for showing colours... *edits the personal part away* Sorry, didn't know that facts you hear in public chat of GoE don't go on the forums...

yep, it's going to be fun... for those who already have some stats and creatures... i wonder how the mp5 newbies will react, but time will tell and, truth being told: for an active player, that range should be enough to play on and on... just in the next few days/weeks there will be a bunch of people struggling back into mur's range, constantly killing anything moving and kicking on corpses and stuff... i'm looking forward to it XD

hmm.. why not... [spoiler]i traded in balance for stats at some point, gave a piece of a map to Lightsage (who never got the last piece which is lost on elmster), got one coin from you and one from Tom6, spent exactly 53 creds on MD shop, have 11 in shop and exactly 13,13 on my free credits right now, borrowed an imperial aramor to Cutler just today, got 15 creds for placing in HC some time ago, got a kelle'tha fire-tormented soul before tokens were released, gave that one back to Mur, stole a grasan from eigger the day the codes got implemented (which i still have, it's my second oldest creature now), got a bunch of extra trees through CTC before the bug was fixed, abused my bugged protector spells to kill dst's indefeatable bug-rusty (which she failed to reproduce, sadly enough) and cheated a few armor-parts on mp3s[/spoiler] now that all of my evil deeds are open, it's your turn ;P EDIT: you may ask yourself why i am so extremly interested in that business... because i'm not stupid and know how to get infos i want to get, the coins you and Krishka hold sum up to something A LOT less than what changed possessor during the auction... let alone the creatures...

sorry to say it, but this whole post sounds like the argumentation of a thief trying to look innocent LOL if that whole business was as transparent as you wanted it to be, you would have no issues whatsoever with opening your books to everybody [without cooking them first, that is] i'm not saying that you are selfrighteous or dubious or anything that way, but still, the bad taste stays... and having all dealings public is what you were clamoring for in the market-place topics up to now, right? so why would exactly YOUR dubious deals stay hidden from public, while you would slaughter me if i tricked newbies into bad deals? =P you'd better delete that topic before someone who cares reads it EDIT: found a translation to an old joke that fits here: Judge: Whom did you send the letter concerning the bank's vault plans? Defendant:Letter Secrecy. J: How did you get an attest that your assistants arm was broken so he could get off from work? D: Medical Secrecy. J: How much did you steal? D: Banks Secrecy. J: 10 years. D: WHY?? J: Official Secrecy.

part of it may be lazyness, but the greater part, the reason why people like eigger, UP, No one, dst, Cutler and me have been doing it for sooooo long is to help new players forming better and more mp5-like armies... i totally understand why you want a revolution back to balance, because most of you have never known what struggling for wins means, there have always been trees to chop on one side or the other for you... as i have already tried to explain, balance-reality looks different, weaklings don't leave a sanctuary and strong/experienced players set rits you don't kill by coinincidence... or by knowledge, for that matter, there are some rits that are NOT beaten by another ritual, but ONLY by brute force... and we are experienced enough to set rits in a cycle that will always give you the counter's counter waiting in line if you ever manage to break the first of our defs LOL

how do you think your battle grounds would work? there are not enough players who enjoy fighting that much to keep an active willow's community, and when they feel bored, they set a bunch of good defs (like dst is currently setting her rusty on max vit) and idle out, and all those who pass by and attack get nothing but broken rits, dead creatures and the feeling that they will never win... and, to touch another issue, you won't be able to keep your community together, all the rits and their counters have already been there and there are a lot of people who share what they know, there is no need to invent the wheel again, and with that being so, your training is damned to fail because there will be nobody left to train after a week... just the occasional newbie passing by and ignoring those jerks with their deadly defences, walking on to a place where he can get easier wins and xp for his creatures... it's true that you don't learn anything about real combat that way, but most won't be interested in learning about real combat anyways, they will most likely never need to set an effective rit plus, another truth being told, most people gather wins and xp not for showing off, but for training new mobs to a higher level, and you don't train mobs in a deathmatch :lol: *like sthe growing list of supporters and looks forward to afternoon...*

old captivater, the new one is overpowered imo... i want to see strategic creatures getting implemented, not another pwner-creature like rust-gold-drachorn >.<

delay your plans from willow's to wasp's activation chamber or oak fort and i'm fine with it, you won't hurt any newbies or bypassers there... if you do that, i might as well go and help you a bit, i'm sick of trees myself ;-) it's just your idea of reviving willow's as a place of scaring newbies that got me to boiling point within an instant... edit: and a bit that you spit on my idea of setting martyr-forests (i may not have been the first to do it, but i was amongst the first to idle at willow's with trees up for newbies to chop...)

you obviously don't know how that whole business started... one of the few privileges of the veterans XD when i started on 5, there were some old-school warriors, and they were great. they had defs that really made me run off in horror like a chicken with its head chopped off, and by that time there were no overpowered creatures, just REALLY good rits ;-) there was no way for a newbie to survive in that system, NOO WAAY, absolutely and totally NOOOO WAAAAYY, and we HAD to set dummies to keep our vit up for fighting whenever we left a sanctuary. [now everything is different, and lateron you'll see why] this way, we were getting a lot of losses in no time, and getting vics against real defs was hard back then, with xp limit still at 2.2 (or 2.4, can't remember), and so we forsake balace never to return again. and once this thought started to grow in us, that balance was inevitably lost for ever [i was like 200-300 on losses side back then], we decided that it was time to make a change, to have a revolution in the system, and after some time, a lot of people followed suit, and after some time we had a bunch of extraordinarily active people who stopped caring for their balance and set a bunch of trees (remember, no overpowered creatures, there were about 3 people in the whole game who were able to properly kill a forest, who had both the stats and the knowledge to destroy it) for the newbies to bash on, so they could raise their creatures and fight in our lines lateron themselves. in the long run the idea grew famous, and almost all the people who EVER tackled a forest for easy wins and xp decided that the best thing to do was to create one for themselves, and we could all happily help training up the newbies creatures so they had realistic chances on the old elite. unfortunately, the old elite left, but the idea stuck around, and after some time, someone [no names] realized that it was EASY to gain stats through high-honours, and the effect multiplied itself. that's the history of the off-balance realms, which started about 260 days ago... and even though i like your approach, don't call forest-setters dishonorable, because in a time when you were still asking for the way to the aramory, we were already doing our best to be honorable and kind helpers instead of self-righteous bastards who had nothing but their own personal gain in mind... we could as well have played on in the 'Fighter style' that was common, kept our secrets to ourselves, bash training groups to get easier xp and set defs that were not killable with anything less than a bunch of maxed archers and grasans, but we did something else, something BETTER... and if you want to revive the old system, with creating a bunch of elite players who idle with combat-defs on so that the poor newbies lose all they have and in the long run the fun of the game, fine, but consider this as my very personal declaration of war on those combat defs, and they will be wiped out whenever i find the time for clearing willow's... those ideas do not fit the current honor and fighting system, as losses and vics are not distributed at the same rate! PS: nothing personal, you know... it's just some very old frustration with the combat-defs that finally finds an enemy *hehe*

*wants to throw out an idea he's been having for a long time now, but which never fitted the time since we royaly screwed the lore-treaty^^* what is the point of non-combat pacts? to have creatures alive for training purposes? to show hat your role is honorable enough to be bound to a treaty? if former, it's pointless, every lost battle is more training than a won battle can ever be (unless maybe when you get bashed by a drachorn with 40k attack, that is ;-)) if latter, it's pointless too, because a RP-valueable treaty can only be about something RP-worthy, and getting some nice little combat experience is exactly NOT RP(at least in the eyes of most RPers... which i am not judging about, of course) and if you now come and say 'but...but....but... if i get wiped by my friends, that's totally an RP thing', then face one fact: In MD, you don't die from being killed!!! not even your creatures die from being killed!! if you want some easy fighting, create rituals that are good when playing on low vit, every jerk can win with 10k per critter, only the best win with 400 per creature ;-) *idea over, some more thoughts to the actual problem* it's nothing new that the lores are really picky on their non-attack policies, and hope to push through that nobody who's stronger than them could attack them at all, while they'd themselves love to pick on weaklings... i have had enough cases (when the GG-LR treaty was still running) that people who were NOT part of the treaty, like CoEs or Savels, told me off for attacking them, with a convo like the one kragel posted in it's aftermaths, while THEY themselves where constantly preying on weaker members of GG... i can see that it's easier to fight people who are weaker than yourself, the chances of getting killed are a lot slimmer, but that's exactly NOT the sense of a treaty... it's in place to protect the weak, the strong can easily protect themselves ( if they want to be protected, that is, giving away wins is a much nicer thing to do imo^^)

now the idea will hang aound in space til Mur gets around, likes the title, skips through the topic and decides he likes the overall idea so much that he will implement it ^^

finally back at home, with my library^^ some more _really_ good reads: Tolkien : The Hobbit John Dickie: Cosa Nostra (Documentation AND novel, one of the best things i've ever laid my eyes on... but not for suitable for everybody, if you don't like the Mafia, you won't like that book, either) Declan Hughes : The Colour of Blood (Ed Loy is the hardest of all hardboiled PIs ;-)) Wolfgang Hohlbein: War of the Angels (Good vs. Bad on highest level) Sergej Lukianenko: Watch (Night Watch, Day Watch, Twilight Watch, Last Watch) Stephenie Meyer: Twilight, all parts^^

Aeo, the correct quote would be 'One persons [color="#FF0000"]freedom[/color] ends where another persons freedom begins', or a bit more concrete "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins" (Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.), according to Wikiquote ;-) that's got nothing to do with fun, and we definitely don't interfere with your freedom of speech or 'freedom of playing' (even though that's not one of your rightful freedoms, as this is Mur's private product, but that's a different question), if you don't want to participate in politics, leave it to us and we won't even interfere with your fun^^ and well, allies are about politics, no matter if this game or another... and i never said you would be less important than the 'adults' because that's just not true!! PS: i would like you to come and throw pies on our politicians, they deserve it... and i'd like to see a kiddie getting a good beating on 8 Pm-news for insulting our politicians, too XD

you could try substituing the lol with a rofl or lmao, and if that works out, you could go on little by little... to real words like laughs or smiles again, and by then your brain should be ready to stop the loling once and for all and return to normal pace XD

@aeo: why do you think politics are no fun? do you think we RL-older players don't want some fun?^^ in time you will understand ;-) on-topic: Akasha, your nice little quote-list does not at all meet the point you want to make... at least i think so, but i haven't realized all of your points yet XD anyways, i think that after all that questioning we did here, things are transparent enough, and if one really cared for that matters you could even find out who voted in that elections... i think it was Pample who was doing the counting, right? so, all in all i think we can lay the disputes on how we call the lore-allies and how the forum should be used aside and have some kind of peaceful coexistance again, can't we? EDIT: [i hate peaceful coexistances, but better that than some more flaming with nobody but Loukas contributing to the topic, imo]

the privilege of the stronger^^ MRD and MR's F can afford to have a 'pick-and-choose' style of diplomacy, imagine it that way: MR's F are the US, Lorerootian-allies are... uhm... Switzerland, or maybe Italy... now, you can try and have a treaty [EU-treaty, if you wish to stick with the metaphor] amongst the LR-allies and try to become a stronger plolitical force in the realms, but when you break it down to force, the States still have a bunch of nuclear weapons [MRD, THO, Wander] and a few good friends with nuclear weapons who might come and help if they want to do so, while the EU has what? Luke and Amo? don't be offended, but after all you are not strong enough to 'pick-and-choose' whom you want to have a treaty with and whom not, while MRD can do so... at least in my opinion it works that way^^

if it's neither general xp-gaining from the dummies hanging out at GoE nor stat-gaining from the MR grounds, then all i can see left is rit-setting training... nice idea, a lot of newer players have no idea about the benefits of _really_ good rituals, and a specially designated training ground will draw some attention... for a while, and then it will die because newbie-help is at Dojo, and advanced help can't be provided without constant activity of advanced fighters... and those will get bored from hanging out at DQ in the long run LOL nonetheless, if you toss out some nice ideas about it, i would like to see that place in action once again instead of a lorerootian hideout XD

stormy... did you fail to grasp the creatures powers, or were they edited since you posted? that captivating Aura is great, it takes all the first round weakens and damages from archers, grasans, rusties and so on ad absurdum, no matter if it dies in second rounds strikes... it buys you one round!! and if you use it with high enough vit, it's stronger than maxed eles... imagine that thing, taking half the vit of a few overpowered grasans and chaos archies... 10k vit on a creature that takes all the hits, that thing would most probably survive the first rounda dn then go life-stealing... Burns likes, a lot another strategic creature, useless against things like stealers or single-hitters, deadly good on all-hitters... good idea^^

uhm... i might be wrong person to comment that, but from an insiders (though not highranked members) point of view, MRD and Yrth have been cooperating all along, but unlike the Root-super-ally, both GG and MR's F are free to make their very own diplomatic decisions, and MRD never felt it necessary to cooperate with any other Ally than GG... which might be due to the fact that Wodin was desinging a defence pact with Nelya, which was obsolete by the time MRD got his own ally implemented ;-) disclaimer: none of my words are the universal truth and i have not talked to any of my superiors before posting [and i don't intend to ask for permission anyway, for that matter...], so everything i wrote might as well be wrong [which i doubt...]