Resource Depletion: For or against?

[Nimrodel]

There has been a lot of hoohaa in MD recently concerning resources. Some people are trying to use every measure possible to prevent resource depletion and there are others who want to deplete and have announced an event only for the sake of depleting resources. Once i started thinking about the issue, I wanted to know why people are against resource depletion. I mean, in earth's environment, resources help in maintaining the balance. Something similar to the term homeostasis. But in MD's environment, resources don't do any of that stuff. They are there just to be collected. By depleting, their regrowth gets slower and hence the other people who want to collect the resource for some reason, don't get to do it. But apart from that is there any other reason? Also, people who are for resource depletion or don't mind collecting resources till they go to zero, why do you do so? Is it greed? is it some kind of rebel spirit ( as in what is wrong with depletion?) or something else like 'since I was committed to collecting them, i deserve to collect all of them'. I don't intend this to be a flame thread. Just curious.

Edited for grammar.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Nimrodel

[Fang Archbane]

I am absolutely against resource depletion. I feel it hurts the land, and all those who love it.

[Nimrodel]

the question is why fang? why do you think it hurts the land? had the resources been something like gold coins and silver coins would people still aim to preserve it?

Edited February 15, 2013 by Nimrodel

[Shemhazaj]

[color=#808080][i]I dislike depletion because I'd much rather see the resources being gathered by people (especially new players) that want to use them for making tea and cakes (or creating "projects" of their own) and run around having fun and exploring MD instead of being hoarded in pockets without any use. [/i][/color]

[color=#808080][i]In some places, like Bob or Druids Grove I dislike constant depleting for RP reasons. Occasional depletion (also for RP reasons) is acceptable coz I can do some druidic rites and stuff...[/i][/color]

[Fang Archbane]

Marind Bell is sacred to me, along with all the creatures, resources, and people in it.

A land is meant to be loved, nurtured, cared for and treated with respect.

Resource depletion is the opposite of how it should be treated.

And yes. Even if it was gold and silver, I'd still say it's wrong to overharvest.

Treat the land well, and it will treat you well in return.

Treat the land harshly, and it will one day pay you back equally.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Fang Archbane

[No one]

[url="http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedstates/southdakota/newsroom/the-benefits-of-fire-2.xml"]The benefits of fire[/url]

[Rumi]

@No one

Fire is an incredibly useful wholistic landscape management tool. However, the appropriate use of fire is not analagous to the resource depletion you promote in MD.

Thr use of fire in ecological management essentially promotes healthy new growth while eliminating dangerous, stagnant, or diseased older growth. An example is regular use of fire in a forest to eliminate the understory buildup of brush and limbs. This is called the fire ladder and presents a threat to the mature canopy when not regularly eliminated. The lack of natural or managed forest fires over 100 years in the American West is the reason our forest fires today are so devastating.

While the underuse of fire presents opportunities for the build-up of stagnant ecology, the overuse simply destroys that which you are trying to save. A first cannot survive a constant conflagration, which removes all moisture and eventually burns all living things to the ground.

Some further examples:

Pruning will extend the life of a tree or other plant by eliminating older and disease prone limbs. Proper pruning of a tree can extend the life by many years. Coppicing is an extreme form of pruning where you cut the tree back to the ground to allow complete regrowth. In Europe, coppicing of trees in hedgerows and around farm fields kept trees alive for centuries that would not have survived without being cut, all while proving farmers lumber and firewood.

Again, pruning and coppicing have their limits. The general rule in pruning is take no more than 1/3 of the top growth in any year. For plants that can coppice and regrow, you cannot cut them back to stumps every year or eventually the root system will die back just the same as the top growth.

In pasture or prairie management, growth is checked through the use of grazing animals. Managed rotational grazing of cattle herds mimics the natural herd migrations such as the wildebeest heed in Africa and the buffalo herds once found in North America. These animals move in established migration patterns which allow full growth of pasture grasses, followed by regulation of biomass through consumption. Fields where grazing herds are not present present fire a fire danger, and often lose mature ecological elements as other ecologies move into the space.

The overuse of cattle on a pasture, or overgrazing, which is very common on farms and ranches across the world occurs when their it's no migration pattern. Pasture animals easily destroy the field ecology, leaving a bare stubble of growth. Without strong root systems, compaction occurs under the weight of the animals and the soil structure is destroyed. Regeneration of these fields can take years in the best of conditions, and decades or centuries in areas prone to desertification.

So, back to you No one. The constant depletion of resources is in no way like the benefits of fire. Appropriate management would be allowing full regrowth after each depletion or daily "pruning" of resources from full down to the percentage that provides full regrowth each day. These are two ways that maximize harvest and mimic the general process of nature. Since the day the first herb basket was available, the Meeting of the Roads scene has not once, NOT ONCE, had 18/18 herbs. You and your companions have overgrazed it like a herd of stupid cows. You have yet to produce any decent milk or meat and instead you have provided this load of infertile bull****

Edited February 15, 2013 by Rumi

[No one]

I am sorry Nim for this SPAM, but it seems I have to answer to this guy:

1st: please use "code" or "spoiler" for the copy / paste. Ppl could mistakenly consider you smart for the post.
2nd: I always read content of pages for links I post
3rd: yea, we already knew you're not the brightest star on the sky
4th: disregarding 98% of your comment ... it could be a good "how to" for the item users but even that is a "remake" of someone else's "how to"

5th: was that long post just to make all players in MD ... cattle ?

Edit:
6th: ??? promote resource depletion ??? If you are talking about my event, then you are in the wrong topic .
7th: [u]what it is on topic with your post[/u] ?

Edited February 16, 2013 by No one

[Mya Celestia]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]I am against resource depletion as a whole, but most against the herb depletion. Being able to gather herbs is something a newbie could do and get an item from. With the herbs at zero all the time, young players miss out on the chance to use an item to get an item. Even if just one patch was left, it would give the young players a chance to have a different experience within MD.[/font][/color]

[Udgard]

Me?
I'm not particularly against resource depletion. Personally I'd rather people not deplete it and leave enough for optimum regeneration because it will lead to more resources usable in the long run.

But when people deplete it, for various reasons (monopoly, prisoner's dilemma of trying to get as much as you can for yourself, RP reasons etc) I'm not going to curse them either.

While I love MD, I'm still sane enough to realize that it is, in the end, just a game and the lands are just pixels. They're not real lands and these are not real resources so I have no reason OOCly to say no to resource harvesting for the sake of "honoring the land" or something.

[BFH]

I'm in favor of depleting resources. They are there with the purpose of people discovering another branch of md, or at least it is how i feel it. And... personally it makes me feel that a feature of MD is liked and hence used.

What I dont like is the current situation of shared items where some lands have an advantage over others in terms of which gathering tools they have, but that's an issue that to be fixed will need a lot of planning from council, community, and the coders...

That's what i think, but people might not think like me.. idk

[Eagle Eye]

I against depletion of resources because our land need resources without resources the is empty. We need to cooperate to make things possitive

[Laphers]

The nice guy in me says that it is nicer to allow all to harvest therefore harvesting only to the level that will allow full regeneration at the next regen time is proper.

But depletion happens so I would like to see a mechanic that allows players to push resource regeneration to a faster level. I think it would allow a different dynamic that could help non-depleters and depleters alike.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1321242509' post='95769']
If you really want herbs but all of these locations are harvested, contact me and I will try to give you some.
[/quote]
I am all for depleting herbs, because in over a year now, not a single person contacted me regarding this, and I'm fairly sure I've had all four varieties in my inventory since posting this. Plus, people get all worked up because they feel something is being taken from them, even though it never belonged to them in the first place, it's like if somebody insults your favourite TV show: You can defend it all you want but at the end of the day the actors and producers and writers and stuff (similar to herbs in this example) don't care about what you and your friend say to each other about it, they're just gonna do what they do. In my eyes, the only reason not to deplete anything is for efficiency's sake, so that the maximum amount can be harvested, but there is very little demand for herbs, so perhaps if supply goes down far enough for long enough, we will see some change.

[Menhir]

I heard once from a government - if you´re not with us then you´re against us - hence our enemy. So the whole black or white game is only existing to know where to put people or things and why? Because of the illusionary feeling of security. Security to put things or people in boxes to know how to handle those.
Some days ago I just listened to a favorite "band" of mine and they have a song in which they sing the following lines:

Und dann schüren wir Ängste, die sie verbrennen.
Sagen, wir sind nicht dagegen, aber auch nicht dafür.

Translation:

And then we fuel fears which will burn them.
Saying, we are not against it but at the same time we are not in favor of it.

I´m not against depleting nor am I in favor of it. I´m in favor for the freedom of everyone to do as he is able to do. As long as "everyone" can choose to leave resources untouched or depleted "noone" should judge the action of others.

[rikstar]

I think menhir has a good point. You should be able to do what you want. But it is unfair that some players won't get the resources they are looking for.
Just because it is depleted.

[Tom Pouce]

if there is no depletion (not below 60%) ressource renew at an maximum rate
chosing that option is optimum to get the most ressources produce, and if the ressources would be share in some fair way, it would be optimum for each players that want ressources

probably doing so MUR wanted to see if individual will chose the greather good for all (but then the magority if not all of individual need to want it working), or will individual short term good, will preval and ressource depletion will apend

in an ideal word i am for no depletion

[Kaya]

You should be able to do as you want, but that doesn't mean everyone should like it just because they're doing what they want.

I dislike depletion. Taking things just for the sake of taking them, to prevent others from having it. If they want to play that way, fine, but people shouldn't like it. Out of character I'm not completely opposed to depletion for the sake of depletion either, because it gives a common goal to fight against.

In character I wouldn't leave a chance untaken to fight the depletion of my homeland. The resources belong to the lands, and we're allowed to harvest them, however after a while the more we take the less we get.

[No one]

Here is another [url="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/20130218plixploxmb.png/"]spam for Rumi[/url]. It isn't meeting of roads, but an MB location.

[DARK DEMON]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Plix has been a herb depletor for quite some time.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I am against depletion, but there's one thing I've learned in my struggle against it: it's of no use.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400][b]There is no effective way to make depletion impossible.[/b] No matter what you do, even if you manage to convince a depletor not to deplete and he agrees, one would still be able to deplete, even if he doesn't. So I sat and though at why people deplete. I figured out that it was because of the people who started acting against it fanatically. [/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Depletors only get their attention because[b] we give it to them.[/b] If depletion wasn't talked about at all, if it wasn't considered at any time, if it wasn't thought of against, if it wasn't fought against, what reason would the depletors have to deplete? I'm pretty sure it's not greed of resources [/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]If gaining attention was what the depletors wanted, then I must say, they have been very successful. Look at how many people discuss about it, in-game as well as forums. [b]If we all stop caring about depletion as a whole, wouldn't the depletors stop cause they would have no reason to continue? [/b]It's not like they have a very fun time depleting.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]It is [b]our[/b] fault that depletors are so successful. By our, I mean the ones fighting against it, when they know they have no effective way of preventing it.[/color][/font]


[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400](edited for spelling error)[/color][/font]

Edited February 18, 2013 by DARK DEMON

[Plix Plox]

[quote name='DARK DEMON' timestamp='1361196317' post='132907']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Plix has been a herb depletor for quite some time.[/color][/font]
[/quote]

Oh.
My.
God.
Seriously.

I've stopped depleting in your 'beloved land' Loreroot for [i]ages.[/i]
Go moan and groan somewhere else.

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='kellox' timestamp='1361200136' post='132911']
Oh.
My.
God.
Seriously.

I've stopped depleting in your 'beloved land' Loreroot for [i]ages.[/i]
Go moan and groan somewhere else.


[/quote]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I stated a fact. No moaning, no groaning, no complaining.[/color][/font]

[Dragual]

A fact is backed up with proof. Show it.

[Fyrd Argentus]

This is just one more social experiment - game within a game - in MD. Mur or his alts want to see if we can pull together cooperatively to operate at the higher steady state of herb production, or if selfish actions will tear down the effort and herb production is at the lower steady state.

So he throws out the reward for cooperative game action -- higher total resource productivity -- to see if social cooperation spontaneously develops. The experimenting sadist is loving the show.

Now the question really is -- is the incentive really high enough to develop a social movement/organization? Or perhaps will someone take on the project for it's own rewards? (I kind of think Nad did this for awhile with MB's water resources). It might become an inter-land competition of sorts.

On the other hand, the role players and scholars in the group will see the model to Earths actual eco system, and take something different from the episode.

This is how MD works, folks.....

(Insight of a tired old veteran, for what it's worth....)

Edited April 24, 2013 by Fyrd Argentus

[Muratus del Mur]

you can't call any attempt of self sustained social dynamic as an "experiment" of mine. To keep balance you need to provide both destructive and creative methods, this does not mean i am experimenting anything,..its more accurate to say i used the things learned in other experiments to decide depletion is good to exist, while it is bad to happen..well  ..bad for some..good for others.