[quote name='Firsanthalas' timestamp='1284194433' post='68182']
First up, Rhaegar was let into the alliance along with other people when Grido and Z tried to rebuild it. He did not rebuild it from nothing like Jazira is now attempting to do.
[b]He changed it, and you cannot deny that. It doesn't matter if he rebuilt it or not.[/b]
Secondly, Rhaegar himself seemed to change the direction and ideas for the Church on several occassions. At one point he started to take up residence in the Tribunal Temple and he spoke about using it as a base for the Savels. That seemed to just peter out after a while. Then he wanted the Savels to be historians in Loreroot, then he started the avatar shop. There is more, but they are the big ones I can think of right off the top of my head.
[b]Oh no, he tried to do other things! His life didn't revolve around the Savels 100%! He tried to give the Savels a NEW ROLE? BLASPHEMY! Nobody else has ever given an alliance a new role![/b]
Thirdly, he's a blockhead with as much subtlety as a bull in a china shop. He has zero tact and succeeded in royally getting up a lot of people's noses with his crap. He still does. He had an issue with me from day 1. Why? Because he listened to and believed venomous crap that was still boiling over from old wounds in Loreroot. No matter what happened, he never ever got past that. In short, he was a source of conflict within Loreroot and outside it too.
[b]That doesn't change the fact that you ONLY "put up with him" and didn't try to establish friendly ties. (Simply taking the information from your post, I don't pretend to know about your personal issues)[/b]
I put up with Rhaegar for as long as I did for one simple fact. I was trying to be fair. I did not want my personal feelings towards him to cloud my judgement and I wanted to give him a chance. Many people felt that I was too soft and I believe that Rhaegar himself started to believe that I was somehow weak and he could push me as much as he wanted. Wrong on that score.
He's a control freak. He seemed incapable of delegating tasks and only seemed to want to work with people when he felt like it or if he wanted to. By and large he showed little interest in working with anyone outside the Savels.
[b]Why should he work with anybody if he doesn't want to? As an example, I'm not overly friendly with redneck. Am I going to go to him and say "Hey, wanna help me with a quest?", even if we're in the same alliance? It's not hard to ignore someone or something. For most people, anyways.[/b]
He openly fostered a belief in at least some of the Savels, that if they were in the alliance before the kingship elections, then they didn't have to recognise the king. For any leader of any group in Loreoot to do such a thing is unacceptable. I also found out that things I said concerning his members were either not passed on or twisted. And he insisted that he deal with his members, not me.
[b]Who cares about his beliefs? Lay down the law, don't stand there and "put up with him". There's a PM system and chat for speaking to people, you don't need to go through him. That's plain lack of effort on your part, if you really wanted to speak to them.[/b]
Activity of the Savels...
Towards the end of his tenure, there was little or none. Most of the members seemed inactive and at least one member seemed to spend more time outside the alliance than actually in it (not a personal dig by the way, merely the way things seemed).
[b]You want to talk about inactives? Grayhawk, White Reaper, Mysteria Blue (seemingly back, but still had a long absence), Siala Lone Wolf, Cross Swords and Mojomuppet (not 100% sure) in GotR, and I won't even mention the ones in CoE.
This is not intended as a shot at GotR or CoE, just don't complain about inactives if you've got plenty under your command.[/b]
When I booted him there was almost no reaction from them. Infact, some of them seemed completely oblivious to what had happened. Personally I was disappointed. I had expected more of a reaction, any reaction.
When Marv took over he tried to contact the members and got almost no response until he kicked people.
[b]Not everybody reads the forum, where it all happened, and as you said, many were inactive.[/b]
Savelite items....
Rhaegar aggressively sought the items that he felt belonged to the church. He was very insistent (to put it mildly) that they belonged to the church. Where are they now? He refused to return the ones he had to Marvolo, when Marvolo took over. I guess that they only belong to the church if Rhaegar is running it. Maybe it should be called the church of Rhaegar?
[b]Rhaegar bought the items with his own funds, I'm assuming. If another Muffin Man came along and replaced you without your permission, would you willingly give him your muffin-related items if you still considered muffins to be part of your role?[/b]
Alliance location..
Rhaegar himself stated to me very clearly that the Savels belonged in Loreroot and would never leave.
[b]Opinions change, get over it.[/b]
Savelite memorial....
Yeah, I find this a mixture of funny and sickening really. For starters it is really a homage to himself and one or two others, as well as a two fingered salute to myself and the rest of Loreroot. He's missing at least one name of an older member from that list and he has included names of people that had long gone before his demise and also some people that were barely there or did anything at all. The Savels are also not dead, so having a 'memorial' is in poor taste in my opinion.
[b]Marv's Savels were no better than what you seemingly believe Rhaegar's were, and Jazira's plans don't even look like the Savelite Church, they look like the Loreroot Church. Who really cares if he's missing a few names, or included some extra, just because? In the end, it's up to him who goes on, not you. If you disagree, talk to him about it, otherwise, keep your opinion of it to yourself.[/b]
The ultimate irony though, is that the alliance should have a memorial, because it should be put to bed in my opinion. But it seems that people in MD have an inability to let go of the past and move on. If this new incarnation of the alliance does not make something of itself it will be going to alliance heaven. Make no mistakes about it.
[b]Yey, threats to people who actually wish to see Savelites restored.[/b]
As for a memorial, that should be something that is done by the MD community (or at the very least the land of the alliance), not by one or two people with an axe to grind.
[b]So, instead of the former leader of the alliance in question, you'd rather either have everybody (most of the people in this group have never had anything to do with the alliance), or you (who has never been in the alliance) decide who goes on the list? Not to mention, of course, that NOBODY can dictate what who puts on clickables except Mur. You want something else for the memorial? Do it yourself.[/b]
Rhaegar had his chance. He blew it royally, so stop this nonsense of saying he should have it back. It is time to give someone else a chance or put the alliance to bed once and for all.
[b]Yeah, he blew it because of a personal issue between you and him. It was not because of all of that "abuse" you put up with, and it was not because he created an unofficial Lorerootian group without your permission. These things are easily ignored.[/b]
[/quote]
Now, I don't know about the rest of the community, but I'm tired of hearing you ***** and moan and try to justify yourself. I am also VERY tired of hearing Marv spout off every time Rhaegar and the Savels are mentioned in the same paragraph. Everybody knows both of your positions and opinions on the subject already, so the only reasons I can see for these posts are attempts at justification or just pure hatred, and either way, both reasons make you a "blockhead with as much subtlety as a bull in a china shop", in my opinion.
My edits in bold.
Sorry for longpost/rant.