Jubaris

uh, a lot of people to respond to. I hate when that happens I'll start from Kafuuka. and will start from the point under dot two - the idea about starting this was to listen to constructive feedback of people, not sentimental complaints and biased conservative, political posts. in the meantime I noticed I ain't gonna get what I was expecting so went on to the testing phase, checking how would it exist in the period of week or two with a different set of rules (with any future changes being based on that). I also kinda lost most of my interest into MD and with the lack of time on it, sadly didn't manage to put myself enough into the project. Will see about that soon. Now my idea about the long term would include no staff (and more concrete instructions on how should people behave over the grounds - no rules but simple instructions, it is based on people will they apply them or not) with the idea that every older player that has useful method to balance out players (mp3s and mp4s) to use it once in a while on their own will against stronger mp3/4 players who farm wins there/crush anyone on the sight preserving the idea of strength balance of mp3/4 players. actually there was something like those "grassan free fridays" idea but with the ones who I spoke it was pushed away since that kind of rules would be complicated for the young to follow. (idea is the less rules the better) 3rd point. yes role play. depends of your definition of role play. my definition of a role player would be a player who made some kind of role in the realm, that doesn't have to include blue star text, like, I don't know, Emerald Arcanix. He has a role within MB and with its organization, he is part of the council, but he doesn't RP in sense of "picking up flasks of beer" yet he is a role player to me. it is subjective really I should have explained it straight away.

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' date='10 July 2010 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1278761472' post='63732'] I'll ignore the unnecessary bits... What I'm getting from this is that you are basically just saying you will shut down the sparring grounds and leave it as a place where people should use their common sense to set sparring rituals like in a real Dojo, and you are hoping that people go along with that. If that isn't what you are saying, please explain it to an english speaker who knows what you mean so they can put it better or something, cuz right now i still don't have a clue what the reasoning behind this is, the stuff you say contradicts itself in each new post so I can only assume it is a language issue. I dunno. Maybe its just me, maybe everyone else understands 100%. Z [/quote] call it how you wish, minor or major re-editing (depending on the perspective), shutting down, turning on. Difference is that there are no rules now (in my project I mean) but encouragements and discouragements. With previous state there were rules, made by players enforced on other players - while Calyx or Shadow were there (that alone can be questioned is it good or not), and after they're both gone from the place of maintaining the grounds, there is no one to enforce those rules (I realize that you wanted for it to last at length Shadow, just as I would like this to work at length, or even your SparringGrounds/Calyx's Dojo to work at length - as long as it does something, but one of my points is that current Sparring Grounds doesn't work. I see people being afraid of mp5 and complaining how they will get destroyed once they get there, with most of them not knowing to make a decent ritual - I witnessed a friend being impressed by rituals Burns made in Fighthing club, that friend was an aged mp5, few months less than a year. With this AMONG OTHER THINGS they would learn to fight, win and lose, and accept whatever the outcome is, and evolve. First step towards the "real" MD world.) [quote name='Shadowseeker' date='10 July 2010 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1278763110' post='63733'] Shrug..I say one more thing: I left, yes, but did people understand as to why I did so? I don't think so. Because I left when I saw that the people in it could manage on their own "peer pressure" even if you want..and the occasional attacks they could shrug off. That's how I planned it, and it seemed to work- no big rule enforcing, no big whining, people learned to take things as they are. My presence was mainly to ensure there is nobody who forcefully, continuously does things with evil intent from the start- Since I was apparently no longer needed, fine, I have better things to do with my time. The fighting strength of people would sooner or later balance anyways, so I wait for that to happen..essentially to me you, Rhaegar, seem to take what I did, and pluck it apart. We'll see how it ends. Since you said you have a base of people supporting you..why don't you tell us their names, and ask them to be on duty? I'm watching. If not only because I handled things there before. [/quote] do not missinterpret me, I did not judge your leaving. It was actually quite nice to see one of the strongest fighters of MD "wasting" time at Marble Dale Park for such a time, and you did your job. But that's it, you did your job, now it's time to move on and let others to try to improve it (you do realize that the system isn't perfect and it can never be?! so why are so many of you trying to preserve every rule of dojo like its sacred?) and yes there's a base of people that are supporting the idea, but in the way of approvement, not active participation since I want to do this with as less people involved (less dependence of general population. The idea is for it to work without staff.)

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' date='10 July 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1278758030' post='63730'] I'm a bit confused now by this thread, so can you clear up some stuff for me Rhaeg? First it says part of the main issue is that Shadow left the "community" to manage their own area and that argument has been used all over the thread to pick at him and to pick at the current set up, but then thats what you are now going to do so I don't really understand? Then you said you would use weaken etc to "enforce" rules. Well I think Burns makes a pretty good point but also if you arn't there then what happens? Especially with the set up of attack anyone, to me it just seems like sheep to the slaughter if they all follow you on it - at least the old way some people followed the rules...I dunno, I feel like I'm missing something. You've said you don't want power, but then you've also said you want to integrate this into quests like your younglings thing. Its also a fact that Calyx gained any power she accumulated from the creation of the Dojo. Mostly though that doesnt bother me in the slightest, what does confuse me a bit is you kinda started saying it was to become some sort of guidance area quite aside from the fighting aspect...but I mean isn't that what LHOs are for? Or are you turning the entire system upside-down and trying to create a full scale induction scheme of sorts? I just don't really understand what is being attempted here...at all... Z [/quote] first, the issue wasn't targeted at Shadowseeker AT ALL. Shadowseeker had problem that he wasn't contacted about it (as first problem) which wasn't needed since he left the Grounds WITH announcing it before leaving entirely from it. no, i didn't say I would use weaken (it was a matter of freeze and no multi mp6 weaken doesn't help that much) to enforce the rules, the point is not to ENFORCE something, the point is to set aside the rules that can't be enforced (since in Sparring Grounds without Shadowseeker, there are rules that cannot be maintained which contradicts the idea of a rule) therefore this was created - free fights with common sense ( which is up to people will they follow, it is based on free will), with my spells not targeted to stop someone "violating the grounds" but to BALANCE the strengths of players. (not as a punishment on individual, understand that) yes, integrate quests within it... for the younglings... which doesn't give me power... at all Calyx did get power, tho that was a period of RPCs, and that power came from Mur. Since I try to make something without interference of "higher powers", there's no reason for me to gain anything from Mur, and even if it did, I doubt Mur would give anything to me, so your concern is unjustified. Yes well I was LHO till I dropped since I didn't have time at that point to commit myself to it enough. Probably not even now as you can see. The point is if the LHOs are meant to do that, then see me as one of the LHOs, it makes no difference. The learning aspect consists not that much of telling spoilers as Burns 'gently' put, but of showing options to players, where can they go and develop, explaining more about the paths from the very sources.

their rits are supposed to be proportional on the strengths of their opponents (they can also see stats of another mp3 so can learn how to wage people's strengths via that) maybe they won't listen, but why would they listen to original Sparring Grounds then? and I hear often that they don't. (some tho are saying that nobody violates it ) it has flaws since I'm not that much on MD lately and can't find the time to maintain the grounds, and balancing the status of the Grounds' fighters once in 5 hours doesn't help much I guess, but the goal was anyway for it to be maintained in the long run without my presence (was gonna test it for few weeks to see how it functions this way so I could implement some small changes that could help maintain it without me) my spells aren't supposed to scare anybody, this is supposed to work on common sense (and not total self discipline like original grounds) with my spells balancing fighters when needed so everyone can challenge the strongest. no, lessons I had in mind wouldn't be spoilers.

to prevent abuses of gaining regeneration with torch and then obtaining creatures I guess... I know of a young friend who used it to farm on bird eggs

it's one of the things I like most at MD. it leads people back to creativity, art. good job making those drawings, I wish you all the best in your new tasks

happy birthday Gridoz

yea I was hoping for more constructive suggestions, but people are debating are stats enough or not since this started there wasn't really that amount of questions about the project or suggestions (except Mya's one and perhaps some else I might forgot, please forgive can't scroll around at the moment), people started questioning my motives, started flaming on me or anyone else cause of politics and similar (in the post or via messenger), and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. So I'll start the testing phase. I'll start shouting around, maybe ask few people to help out with it as well, and in a period of week or two, I'll see how it functions. The Sparrings are just a starting step I hope, which will lead to other ones (this can be connected with my idea for Grand Youngster quest and Burns' fight club for mp5s. It can work out pretty smoothly for players on period of time)

I have announced the new system at the sign of Marble Dale Park. It will be a testing phase as well, if things do not function and/or most of youngsters complain that they do not support this, I will end this project. share your feedback here please.

for the record, I can't attack allied ones either edit: at least not non-allied. while being in the Savelites, I could attack any ally member

yes Mya, it's something I had in mind, but I would like for them also to learn that from practical experience (if we manage somehow to make them so they learn this things on their own initiative, without having to beg someone to set an "interesting" rit). but "theory practice" would come great as well. Why not, as long as there are volunteers (and I'm sure there will be number of them as soon as this gets implemented) who would be there to help (like former Dojo staff, but I doubt it will get organized that deeply since someone is bound to ruin it sooner or later, that's why I am trying to encourage learning on your own with a small help at the start and a point on where to look) My goal is to develop this as much as possible, and ultimately, we will be able to present the players possible paths in this realm (is it stat grinding, is it role playing, showing them who's where and where to go to start your self-made tasks), but that's it showing them possibilities and helping them understand the basis of this realm, imperative is for us not to force ANY opinion about possible paths nor influence them in any way. I don't know what you all think of this and how much of you are willing to take part?

[quote name='Chewett' date='06 July 2010 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1278433687' post='63531'] Thats just a tad rude. You accused me of being part of the "elite vetern circle" yet you seem not to care about someones news veiws, merely stating they "dont know what they are talking about" It doesnt give what they say any less worth. From what i have seen is that he has given his personal opinion of it. It may be wrong, But that is where he can learn by you explaining things, other than just going "you dont know what you are talking about" Really, i dont care what happens to the MDP, bring all the new players there, it just means my mp3's have easier targets. [/quote] rude or not it's how it is, my point is that he shouldn't be offended, we all started pretty much ignorant on the surroundings, but yet my post didn't ended with that quote that you mentioned, it started with it. if you aren't blind, I am actually trying to explain things to him, it is a bit awkward for a forum admin not be able to read posts. and no Chewett, actually, you accused me of not informing your "elite veteran circle" of my every action, even tho it is unrelated to the same. It was you who did the accusations, not me but if you want to quote personal conversations why don't you give the whole log, and not quote random things posting them out of context? the whole issue of this so it seems is that I didn't messaged certainly people about my project, well, I made a post here so people can publically discuss, so what's the problem? If you say you don't care about the Marble Dale Park, it just confirms that you are actually messaging people around and answering here cause of your personal issues on this, and not "business" ones.

actually I did message Yrthilian about it which he can confirm he answered I got lucky in a missunderstanding, and I accepted it as such. Perhaps your honorable system of values that you apply so often and which you are admired for, isn't the same as mine. By my lucky gain, I did not took reward for anyone instead, so I did not harm anyone indirectly or directly, and I found no need to be sad cause of that, and I hardly kept it as a secret.

uhmmm sorry Bronzometh, take no offense, but you're still pretty young in this realm and don't know what you are talking about. despite what you say, Sparring Grounds/Dojo is in chaotic state. and even if the rules of the current grounds could be enforced ideally 24/7, question yourself what kind of progress it is if you level up only cause of "free wins" gathered over period of several months? furthermore: how do you plan to enforce them? attack those who seek to fight? everything that you have to enforce in a community project shows that it has flaws/mistakes. Current grounds are totally empty in action. I don't know why are you all try to put this in the mud, is it cause I am who I am, hated enemy of many? They are supposed to have some projects to teach newbies and guide their way into a decent start as Magic Duelists and if you want to keep the trend of asking people for a wins (believe me, if people really dislike how this goes, I will stop trying to change the grounds), they can gather up in Winds Sanctuary and chatter there (since people will do just that if they don't want to get attacked), asking "who wants to go out and fight?". that's how it works in defensive quarters for example. if my/our project gets accepted pretty well at the start, it will only evolve and it will be a much entertaining place (MD) for youngsters at least if not for everyone, believe me I know what I am saying, you're still pretty young to force biased opinions on certain subjects

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/6472-unable-to-edit-grade-4-item/page__p__54117__fromsearch__1&#entry54117

Maybe he sounded that way, but all you did to 'reassure' him was to point out that you are the one who, in fact, has dominion over the Park it's not like other Kings can readjust alliances of their lands countrary to wishes of the alliance, nor some Kings can close and open their territories on a whim, so why would Lifeline be able to have a say about his own piece of territory, right? but those issues do not concern you I guess, only Marind Bell's one does. Name is really unimportant to me. If you value it so much and do not value my efforts in helping the realm, then I will name my project somehow else. I did thought about moving the place, Bronzometh lead me to that thinking, but I am still of an opinion that Marble Dale Park is the best choice, for the project and for the realm as well. Dividing people isn't the answer, nor it would be that easy to do. to ease your concerns, I used my WP to unlock Oak Tower. and I shortly got banished after it. I am in pain as well

Shadowseeker, I can easily gain adepts from Marble Dale Park (as I always did... accent on always ) with or without it's management as new sparring grounds (you speak of ownership but I did not want to proclaim dominion over it, I wanted for it to start as a project, made mostly by me and help of number of people of course, but eventually let to be able to take care of itself, based on common sense of the community thanks to the minimization of number of rules that were there - more rules, harder to maintain. The Main idea is to help - yes I know that is hard to believe to many of you people.) why do you point my mp6 status as an advantage? the spell levels are so bugged, and the strength of the spells are so low (except No Multi and Freeze that I don't use against anyone at all) that people should actually laugh at people trying to become mp6. When I see people trying to become mp6, I ask them - why? I personally stayed as mp6 since I value creation as most interesting part of the game here, since the structure is still pretty much on the very basis, and I can help in a lot of things as mp6. (mostly in projects like this, but that was the role that I chose when joining the Savelites) Yes well I would rather mention it in some kind of chatter as an offtopic then approach a person I hardly know with a request to "take over" the Sparring Grounds, especially since I didn't find the need to message someone who, at least in my opinion, left the grounds on its own (meaning that you did a job as long as you could and felt that you should move on to other things, fair enough, but you can't keep things like this in your pocket) All due respect to your work, but I didn't find the need to message you, since I don't know you that well, my apologizes for that impoliteness. Perhaps you wish to speak with me about this in private then (about those personal issues, our discussion on the grounds can continue here)? Sadly I do not have WPs to spend. I would gladly use a WP to be able to edit Location tags (I am not entirely sure how it works tho... I spend WP only for one location, right? or for the ability to edit each and every one? ) I kept the name since I didn't want to go back to the name of "Dojo", that would cause some mess I think (like this haven't...), and Sparring Grounds seemed fitting (the location had a tag, what you know ) I should have somehow appreciated your and Calyx's work in public with this, history is something I am careful about anyway, but I didn't, and I am sorry I overlooked that. I don't like tho your threatening attitude towards Marind Bell, it is unnecessary and very ill-mannered, and I'm sure that was just a moment-mistake.

I've been chased by certain person (you know who you are ) how I didn't message "the veterans" about this... supposedly, by a high ranking member of the community, I need to speak with as many veterans as possible before I start anything. Still stuck in RPC universe, are we? I realize I might hurt some egos by this, but I really messaged only people who are related to this subject (king of the land that has that specific location in its territory and all the people that I was informed of who wanted to help with Sparring Grounds) Shadowseeker, first, I don't have your contact in any form, nor I see you in this realm at all to chatter with you and mention things, second you abandoned the Sparring Grounds soooo long ago, why would I need to approach you to start something at Marble Dale Park? you shout how Lifeline cannot interfere in locations such as Marble Dale Park since it is more of a general realm's "ownership" then Marind Bell's (I see a Marind Bell tag there anyway, just for the record), yet you claim to own the grounds and that you won't allow me to "take it over"? I gain no power with this... I've been mp6 over a year, with no advantages (I didn't had a decent training in whole of that time, I just stagnated in profile while helping other people I don't really know) and you dare to point me out as a power grabber? and you seem very frustrated about me tending to my alliance other than Sparring Grounds... At that point it was well maintained and I didn't think it needed my help, so I concentrated on things where I was needed more - The Savelites Church (and I might say without any subjectivity that I did a pretty good job) (as a note I didn't like your starting approach either but I tried answering you, I don't hold any grudges on you out of anything, but yet you seem to have some against me) What DO you think my motives are? I really can't see your logic in this...

I would have if Marble Dale Park was maintained. You speak of protection, but there is no protection in Marble Dale Park. There is just a signpost "do not attack awake people without their permission" without anyone to maintain the rule (it was a community project so you can't complain to Mur for getting attacked). the park is where all the newbies first start out. it's best if they see action there, semi-restricted FFA as Redd called it Fights are integral part of players' development, and people don't learn much at all by progression on non damage rituals, as proof I know number of mp5s who were so impressed by Fight Club's basic rituals when they found out the flaws of some rituals. The fact is that mp3s are balanced out, they just need to buy a grassan or two and they can beat out anyone, since they are killing themselves, and newbie can kill out older wounded mp3s, so I wouldn't worry that much. I know for certain that that would make the game more interesting to new players and more challenging and therefore even more fun You are afraid that people will lose some fights... well, that is the point? you learn from your losses. And things aren't that black as you present them to be but I won't push it through before I gain some more feedback from you all. Please continue and I'll try to make you see how I see this. Maybe you'll like it after a post or two Goal of the game isn't to hide out and train peacefully for 300 activity days until you claim you are strong enough to "go out". enjoy the game from day one.

there are number of people who offered help (those who aren't known as vets but medium aged mp4 and mp5), 'regular' people can count with getting everyone familiar with the system. the ones that can help with spells and helping newbs are the mp6s and some with healing spells or similar, and those I am hopeful of getting involved in doing the same. It takes some time naturally, things can't happen over night, and I'll do my best (once I start applying it in few days unless anything happens to stop this) to process this as planned. I alone would be enough to keep it maintained, but I can't really stay 24/7 on MD, rest assured that I will seek those who are able to help

it is hardly an empty change, since the change is based on changing un-preserved rules of the Sparring Grounds you started and Dojo Calyx started. like I said, I presented how it should work, encouragements and discouragements, it is up to the people how they will act. One act leads to another, I will try to make younglings learn about something, other than attacking non-damage rituals. This way it should actually be a game. I will try to balance things out with what I said, use of my spells and other people who might join in in time, but not in order to punish anyone, but to keep balance of youngling's prosper. To please your ears, Lifeline approved it as well and supports it.

In order for younglings to learn in this realm, Sparring Grounds need to evolve. Things can’t be served easy on the plate (nor it was ever possible to maintain that fully at Marble Dale Park). Current Sparring Grounds are not maintained by anyone, so I am announcing this, and it is up to you people will you apply these standards. Sparring Grounds is a place where free attacks are allowed now. The only thing that is forbidden and that will be tried to put an end are regen rituals, lifestealers, and such in case where people use them to harm other players intentionally with negative XP, and its general limited use without mutual consent. People are asked NOT to use ultimate rituals to farm countless wins, but to use “interesting” rituals, train new creatures yes, but not using “beasts” to ensure their training. More of a testing abilities and tactics of variety of creatures, you can see it as continuation of Burns’ Fight Club. Those who have nothing better to do than violate learning state of younglings perhaps cannot be “punished”, but their exposing certainly won’t help their building of a role (unless it is desired to be disliked by many), as long as there are enough people who realize this, there really won’t be that danger in that kind of people. (all you need is a number of people who actively participate in giving chance for younglings to test new things, rituals) and those who use the place to farm countless wins will be weakened by my spells or anyone else’s who want to balance things out (not in order to harm the “strong” but in order to give chance to the younglings to beat on the most powerful of ‘em all ) --- that mostly applies to veteran mp3s who have drachorns and tokens for example, mp3s and mp4s who have some great strength that isn’t available to others in the beginnings. something like freeze-spell, or no-multi-spell. (nothing serious ) so use this as truly a sparring grounds and fight! But not to annihilate but to learn by fighting! Your goal isn’t to kill. This is intended for the mp3s and mp4s, I am not entirely sure how could this work on mp5 (it is considered that MP5s already learnt what they needed for fighting and can manage to survive on their own now. I only ask that you do not violate non-mp5-ally members, but it is up to your conscience) As an mp6 I will be there to help and heal those who are wounded and I also ask that of all other mp6s and those who will become one (or have any kind of helpful spells and have enough will to participate in something like this) this is also a first step that will be followed with things like that 'grand youngster quest', with hopefully many more later on, that will result something like MD University restored. After some feedback, if nothing tries to stop this, I will begin announcing it in game and getting to know newbs with this.

[quote name='apophys' date='03 July 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1278181239' post='63275'] As dst indirectly points out, there is a conflict of interest here. By being the judge of entries, you will be biased toward positive remarks. But a separate judge would of course not know what you can be thinking... The fairest way I see for this to continue is to have a separate judge or panel of judges, and to judge based on quality of writing with no emphasis on truthfulness. Or just change the topic of the writings. [/quote] I agree. If the quest carries on I think the quest should have a judge(s) who would decide what "opinion" is the best, based on the facts that were mentioned in that opinion example: I think Smdrljivko is mean and corrupted since at that and that point when Tipikaka asked where can avatars be bought, he answered that they are acquired by random pick from the creator of the game so Tipikaka could use his RL money, investing into a trade for a cheap creature from Smrdljivko. of course, facts mentioned in those opinions should really have at least some indirect proof... it's just a thought note: this story is entirely fictional with fictional characters. any relation with in game events is purely coincidental.

happy birthday Kets

if you want to learn younglings about rituals... gain all wodin seals and revive Wodin Ullr he is mp1 and can attack anyone (can be attacked by anyone). it's up to you to find a way to persuade the owners of the seals