Aeoshattr

Though I agree, I don't think it's a bug, I actually wanted to ask about this... Should (as in is it logical, not "does the code do this on purpose") being drunk also scramble RP actions (text between asterisks) and OOC text (between brackets)? I personally don't think it makes sense. Maybe for text between asterisks, but I don't think it should also scramble OOC text.

Storytelling Night - Thursday, 8th of January, 21:00 ST. Location TBA Before anything else, I would like to thank everyone who attended and actively took part in my sermons so far; as perhaps you may have figured out, I was never on the lookout for a "correct" answer, rather conversation and opening new perspectives, to all those that participated, including myself. Thank you. The Storytelling night involves the following: Each participant chooses a particular pain - the name given to it (I.E heartbreak, grief, etc) is to be kept secret by the player. Each participant must spin a short, but meaningful (and hopefully metaphorical) story based on that one pain. It can be complete fantasy, it can be something that actually happened in MD (but as I said... "encoded" a bit in metaphors). Please try and not take longer than 10 mins/player. At the end of each story, we will have a 5 minute break, during which we must figure out what pain troubled the storyteller (I.E heartbreak, grief, etc). Do not be shy. We're not literary critics (I kindly encourage people to listen and interpret the content rather than analyse the structure of the story) so your writing skills won't matter. My only request is that the story you're spinning is coherent and doesn't reveal your pain straight away (E.G. "I fell in love but wasn't loved back" said directly). LOGS (for clarity, I will post the stories that were told, since my story at least was interrupted by a IRL event.): Aeoshattr's Story: [spoiler] [08/01/15 21:12] Aeoshattr:There was once a young little shepherd. [08/01/15 21:12] Aeoshattr:The young shepherd, while having to care for a small number of sheep, spent most of his time skipping around the meadow and picking flowers [08/01/15 21:13] Aeoshattr:He kept the flowers to himself, watching their beauty, and always shed tears when they withered and died, despite having brought that fate upon them [08/01/15 21:14] Aeoshattr:Soon, no more flowers grew in the meadow. [08/01/15 21:14] Aeoshattr:As the young shepherd had plucked them all. [08/01/15 22:30] Aeoshattr:Soon, not only the shepherd, but many of the people living nearby saw that there were no more flowers. So they ventured further away, deep into the forest. [08/01/15 22:30] Aeoshattr:For there is always need of flowers - for beauty, to show love, to give happiness. [08/01/15 22:30] Aeoshattr:The young shepherd found a bush of thorns with the most beautiful flowers he had seen. So he plucked one, and soon let the others know about the thorny bush. [08/01/15 22:31] Aeoshattr:One by one, the men and women of the village came to take the flowers; and one by one, the bush lost its flowers. [08/01/15 22:31] Aeoshattr:But it happily grew more, as it was happy on its own to gift them and bring joy to the people [08/01/15 22:32] Aeoshattr:Days and months passed, night and day of gifting. [08/01/15 22:32] Aeoshattr:But one day... One very sad day, the bush could no longer bloom. It tried and tried, but its twigs were dry. No flower could grow on them. [08/01/15 22:33] Aeoshattr:And one by one, the villagers no longer visited the thorny bush. Soon, even the young shepherd forgot the bush. [08/01/15 22:33] Aeoshattr:Not only did it not bloom anymore... But one by one, the bush lost its leaves. [08/01/15 22:34] Aeoshattr:Before long... the bush had one last leaf left. And it clung to that last leaf with a bitter hope that the young shepherd, the boy who first visited him would come once more [08/01/15 22:34] Aeoshattr:But he never did, and the thorny bush weakly let go of its last leaf, in the dark heart of the woods. [08/01/15 22:35] Aeoshattr: *smiles* That was my story. [/spoiler] Nimrodel's Story [spoiler] [08/01/15 21:23] :*Nimrodel* clears her throat and gets up [08/01/15 21:24] :*Nimrodel* looks at everyone and starts the story in a nervous high pitch [08/01/15 21:24] *Nimrodel*:Once upon a time, in a prosperous kingdom [08/01/15 21:25] *Nimrodel*:There was a great king who watched over his kingdom with the help of his wise advisors [08/01/15 21:26] *Nimrodel*:Occasionally this king could also be stupid because he was too obstinate. [08/01/15 21:26] *Nimrodel*:Only one of his advisors was brave and wise enough to show the foolishness of his ways. [08/01/15 21:27] *Nimrodel*:This is a story about one such episode. [08/01/15 21:27] *Nimrodel*:The king was very fond of asking questions about Life and values to his courtiers. [08/01/15 21:28] *Nimrodel*:So one day he asked them, "Tell me, will a man do anything for money?" [08/01/15 21:29] *Nimrodel*:His advisors said, "Yes Sire. Money is very important for people to lead a comfortable life." [08/01/15 21:30] *Nimrodel*:The king smirked and said, "Prove it to me and you shall be rewarded." [08/01/15 21:30] *Nimrodel*:So the wisest of his advisors, The brave one, brought a poor man with 3 children to feed, to the court. [08/01/15 21:31] *Nimrodel*:He said to the King, "Sire, i have brought you someone who will do anything for money." [08/01/15 21:31] *Nimrodel*:The king looked at the poor man and said, " Stand for one complete night in the lake near the forest without clothes, and I shall give you a lifetime's worth of gold" [08/01/15 21:32] *Nimrodel*:Everyone gasped hearing the King's cruel request as it was the middle of winter and the water outside was freezing cold. [08/01/15 21:33] *Nimrodel*:The poor man agreed to the king's request and Spent the whole night in the freezing cold water of the lake. [08/01/15 21:33] *Nimrodel*:The next morning, the man, with the advisor, went to meet the king. [08/01/15 21:34] *Nimrodel*:The king marvelled at the man's feat and asked, "How did you manage to stay in that water all night?" [08/01/15 21:34] *Nimrodel*:The man said, "I kept looking at the stars Sire and the light gave me hope." [08/01/15 21:35] *Nimrodel*:The obstinate king looked at the advisor and said, "So! He was keeping himself warm with the light of the stars! He has not done what I have told him to. He shall not recieve his reward!" [08/01/15 21:36] *Nimrodel*:The entire court gasped at the king's foolishness. The advisor merely bowed and beckoned the shocked poor man to come with him. [08/01/15 21:37] *Nimrodel*:About a week later after this incident, The advisor invited the king to his home promising him a meal that would be cooked by himself. [08/01/15 21:37] *Nimrodel*:The king, excited and eager, went to his home that day. [08/01/15 21:38] *Nimrodel*:The advisor's servants invited the king in and requested him to wait in the hall as the advisor was still cooking the stew. [08/01/15 21:38] *Nimrodel*:The king smiled and sat down in the hall. [08/01/15 21:39] *Nimrodel*:6 hours passed by, and the hungry king lost his temper. He got up to see what his advisor was cooking that was taking him so long [08/01/15 21:40] *Nimrodel*:In the kitchen, there was a tiny fire in the center with the pot of stew hanging about 3 metters over it. The advisor was sitting next to the fire waiting for the stew to cook. [08/01/15 21:42] *Nimrodel*:The king glared at his advisor and Shouted at him angrily,"What nonsense is this? How can you expect to cook a stew if you hang the pot up so high and light such a tiny fire?" [08/01/15 21:42] *Nimrodel*:The advisor got up calmly and said, "Sire, if the poor man could get warmth from the stars, I am sure the fire is enough for the stew to get cooked.* [08/01/15 21:43] *Nimrodel*:The speechless king realised the foolishness of his folly and immediately summoned the poor man, giving him his promised reward and apologising to him for his foolishness. [08/01/15 21:44] *Nimrodel*:The end :) [/spoiler] Draconas' story: [spoiler] [08/01/15 22:00] Draconas:i know a short story from when i was very young, from before the war with the gods [08/01/15 22:02] Draconas:i was walking through the town, on this bright midsummer evening [08/01/15 22:03] Draconas:at first i was wandering around aimlessly, until i saw her [08/01/15 22:04] Draconas:i stopped where i stood and stared how she was hanging the laundry on the line in her yard [08/01/15 22:05] Draconas:and then i heard a familiar voice from behind me "staring again Draconas?" [08/01/15 22:06] Draconas:i turned around and i saw Elran behind me, a dragon with who i was raised, and my best friend [08/01/15 22:07] Draconas:i ginored his question and said "shes beautiful even in her human form, isnt she? [08/01/15 22:08] Draconas:and he said "she sure is, why dont you go talk to her?" and i didn't answer, not wanting to tell i lacked the courage [08/01/15 22:10] Draconas:weeks passed, and i kept staring, while Elran went around talking here, joking there [08/01/15 22:11] Draconas:and then on an evening in the cold winter i bumped into her [08/01/15 22:11] Draconas:bumped* [08/01/15 22:12] Draconas:i quickly apologised for making her drop her bag she was carrying [08/01/15 22:13] Draconas:and nevvonervouslyoke to her about the weather, the weather! [08/01/15 22:13] Draconas:but she smiled and said "yes its a beautiful day, i wish i could go flying right now" [08/01/15 22:14] Draconas:so i said "me too, why dont we go and fly some later today" but she laughed and headed off [08/01/15 22:15] Draconas:i sobbed and sobbed, but Elran managed to finally cheer me up somehow [08/01/15 22:16] *Nimrodel*:you were always the drama queen draco >.> [08/01/15 22:16] Draconas:but a new problem had risen, the day of the dragonball was getting nearer and i still didnt have a partner [08/01/15 22:16] Draconas:shush you [08/01/15 22:17] Draconas:there was only one candidate for me, so i waited for the right moment to ask her, so i waited, and waited... [08/01/15 22:18] Draconas:and then it was the day of the dragonball and i hadnt ask her [08/01/15 22:20] Draconas:and when the opening notes were about to start Elran whispered to me "you should've talked to her" and then walked over to her and when the song started they started dancing [08/01/15 22:21] Draconas:so i flew off to his cave and set his nest on fire [08/01/15 22:22] Draconas: *mutters* that served him right [08/01/15 22:22] Draconas:that was my story of pain [08/01/15 22:23] *Nimrodel*:you could've got a role in Gossip girl without even trying >.> [08/01/15 22:23] Draconas:im a man! a manly man! [08/01/15 22:23] Aeoshattr: *chuckles* Nim, don't be mean. [08/01/15 22:24] *Nimrodel*:No.. You are a drama queen. Now shush and sit here. [08/01/15 22:24] :Draconas grumbles some not so nice things [/spoiler] Zleiphneir's story (which impressed me a lot) [spoiler] [08/01/15 23:22] Zleiphneir:There was a quiet little farming village, dirt roads and straw thatches [08/01/15 23:23] Zleiphneir:they did everything for themselves there. Reared animals, ground corn, cooked, slaughtered, loved [08/01/15 23:23] Zleiphneir:but there was never violence, and there was never avarice, they worked well together in their world [08/01/15 23:24] Zleiphneir:in one house, a small family, mum, dad, and two brothers, John and Edward [08/01/15 23:24] Zleiphneir:John was strong. He'd spend his time in the fields, laughing and joking, gleaming in the sunlight and smiling at giggling girls [08/01/15 23:25] Zleiphneir:carrying bales of hay and sacks of freshly ground flour for his mom [08/01/15 23:26] Zleiphneir:Edward was scrawny, chisle-nosed and wiry, but wide eyed from spending time in the darkness [08/01/15 23:26] Zleiphneir:he was a blacksmith, and the light from the fire stung his eyes, the cold of the metal made him think [08/01/15 23:27] Zleiphneir:he was always filthy, and no lass would look upon him but with the ember of pity [08/01/15 23:27] Zleiphneir:of a winter's eve they slept, on their haybale beds, tucked in, grown though their were, by loving parents [08/01/15 23:28] Zleiphneir:John's maiden snuck in under moonlit shadows, and Edward covered his head with a pillow as usual [08/01/15 23:28] Zleiphneir:then silence [08/01/15 23:28] Zleiphneir:then coughing [08/01/15 23:28] Zleiphneir:then screaming [08/01/15 23:29] Zleiphneir:the house was aflame, the sound of hooves and cracking on the roof [08/01/15 23:29] Zleiphneir:John desperately trying to drag his maiden outside and douse the lapping flames [08/01/15 23:30] Zleiphneir:when all was done, the maiden lay but a dinner for crows [08/01/15 23:30] Zleiphneir:the village, mostly ashes [08/01/15 23:30] Zleiphneir:John vowed that day to take revenge, and as the village was rebuilt, the two lads wrestled and fought [08/01/15 23:31] Zleiphneir:first in preparation, but it soon turned into a brawling contest [08/01/15 23:32] Zleiphneir:and John, knowing Edward often walked in the night to the town nearby and hid bottles of liquor under his bead, blamed him for the events [08/01/15 23:32] Zleiphneir:bed* [08/01/15 23:32] Zleiphneir:so he was extra vicious with his poundings. He knew, if he could hate and beat his brother so, he could definitely do it to his enemies [08/01/15 23:33] Zleiphneir:when the scout returned with word of who had carried out the deed, John demanded of his brother a fine sword for the task [08/01/15 23:33] Zleiphneir:and Edward went to work [08/01/15 23:33] Zleiphneir:but he hadn't made swords before [08/01/15 23:33] Zleiphneir:he hadn't needed to [08/01/15 23:33] Zleiphneir:so when he handed over the finished product [08/01/15 23:34] Zleiphneir:John threw it back in his face and viciously slay him with unkind words [08/01/15 23:34] Zleiphneir:he stormed away, he would buy a sword somewhere [08/01/15 23:35] Zleiphneir:Edward looked at his creation and shed a single tear. It fell on the metal and spread out in small veins [08/01/15 23:35] Zleiphneir:he put the unrequited gift in a corner, and went on living [08/01/15 23:35] Zleiphneir:time passed [08/01/15 23:36] Zleiphneir:and one day he returned to look at the sword. Rust addled it's blade in the veins, but the grip remained tight [08/01/15 23:36] Zleiphneir:he stepped outside, dragging the point and breathed the night air [08/01/15 23:37] Zleiphneir:a gust of wind blew by, and the sword spoke whispers [08/01/15 23:37] Zleiphneir:On horseback now, with a gleaming suit of armour and weapon to match John returned [08/01/15 23:38] Zleiphneir:in the blazing sun, these months gone by, the girls flocked over and cooed [08/01/15 23:38] Zleiphneir:but he had had his fill of city girls and was simply amused and shooed them away [08/01/15 23:38] Zleiphneir:where is my brother? That traitor? [08/01/15 23:39] Zleiphneir:he whose slumber, he whose drunken idiocy caused my leave, caused my first love to perish? [08/01/15 23:39] Zleiphneir:Edward could hear it all, and he went to the sound, the old gift in hand [08/01/15 23:39] Zleiphneir:Brother, im so happy you have returned, did you slay the people? will you now accept my gift? [08/01/15 23:40] Zleiphneir:John laughed and dismounted. I killed any who got in my way, and more [08/01/15 23:40] Zleiphneir:im sure the ones were among them, but who cares? [08/01/15 23:40] Zleiphneir:if it wasnt for you, it wouldnt have happened anyway [08/01/15 23:41] Zleiphneir:brother...you're being ridiculous. I travel a little sure, but nothing more...but still...if you think it my fault, please, I apologise, accept the gift? [08/01/15 23:41] Zleiphneir:he held out the old rusted sword [08/01/15 23:41] Zleiphneir:John slapped it out of his hands. You brought them here! You showed them the way! [08/01/15 23:42] Zleiphneir:and with that he draw his own sword and launched a blow at edward, who span into the dirt just short of losing an arm [08/01/15 23:42] Zleiphneir:brother no! please! I beg you! [08/01/15 23:43] Zleiphneir:another blow came crashing close and Edward scrambled to his feet, desperately grasping and grabbing the only weapon available, the old rusty sword [08/01/15 23:43] Zleiphneir:hah!! you idiot. That's not going to help you. You have no armour, that weapon is but a fractured twig, and we both know I always win [08/01/15 23:44] Zleiphneir:Edward sucked in his sorrow and swung the sword, completely missing John [08/01/15 23:44] Zleiphneir:but the sword sang out, it screamed as the air filtered through the veins [08/01/15 23:45] Zleiphneir:and the scream shattered John's perceptions [08/01/15 23:45] Zleiphneir:he grabbed his ears as blood ran from them and fell to his knees [08/01/15 23:45] Zleiphneir:their parents pushed their way throguh the crowd, the mother coddled John and ushured him into the house [08/01/15 23:46] Zleiphneir:the father nodded at edward, and he stood alone in the crowd, sword in hand, somehow victorious. [08/01/15 23:46] Zleiphneir:- [/spoiler]

Off to a good start. I didn't claim to have an awful lot of knowledge about the avy system. Yes, I know back then the avys were rare, but I personally think this doesn't justify allowing poor quality avys to still exist in the item shop. It feels like we have more artists and/or more people that can upload decent/good avatars, so why not have more of those instead of saying "it's normal for there to be badly drawn avatars in the shop"? Yes. The quality of the uploaded avatars increased quite a lot throughout the years. However, we're still stuck with a ton of bad avys in the store. I personally remember you saying something about the avy store needing a cleanup at some point in the past, but I may be wrong. If this is the avatar manager's job, then let's encourage/help them do it. I have, indeed, seen improvement regarding the uploading and approval of avatars, but I haven't seen any improvement on the avys in the store and I did shuffle quite a few times in the past few months. That was me (the noob). I know that's true (since I stated it and checked beforehand...), and thus I believe that the little text/rule/comment (or however you want to call it) which says that "your avy is yours forever" should be adjusted. False advertisement, IMO. TL;DR - IMO the amount of poor quality avys in the shop does the item store a disservice in the long run. I would personally prefer paying silver/gold to an artist on MD so that I will have an avatar that represents exactly my character rather than wishing that I will randomly run across one in the shop and spending $$ for it. But this is my opinion, as stated above. Again, since more people can upload avatars now (just about everyone) I don't think the argument that "avatars were rare" is justified. The approval of avatars is great, IMO, so only good avatars will get past that. Thus why not repopulate the item shop with good, quality avys rather than leave the old, poorly drawn ones in?

Well, he pretty much nailed what I had to say on the matter. The one thing I also want to point out about the "rule/comment" in the shop is that your avatar is NOT yours forever. Avatars are sent back to the shop if you are inactive for 6+ months.

IDK, I feel as if this is deviating. I think Myth has a point... more specifically the part with the Oak Tower containing "interesting items". I don't find anything interesting about the items inside, they're just a bunch of clickables (sure, some might contain some "leftover" lore from people that once had access to it, but it's nothing that feels truly relevant in MD at the moment). I think the description might be better off without that last part about "interesting items" or have that simply changed to "clickable items".

I will not be able to make that date and time (I'll be on a flight to the UK). Next day, same time would work for me (11th, at 20:00 ST)

Quoting only to point out what I'm talking about, not to argument against you directly, Chew. I.E if I use "you" here, it's a general "you". I apologize in advance, I am mildly and ever so slightly infuriated like F. IF indeed the reason you all voted for DD to stay dead is because he needs to "change" then this is the utmost and most ridiculous pile of steamy fresh horse **** I've had the opportunity to lay my eyes upon in a while. What gives you the authority to demand that he changes? Forcing a player to change as you see fit through keeping them dead is beyond execrable. If that's how he's going to play his character, than that's how he's going to do it and you don't have the tiniest bit of a right to demand that he does it otherwise. Has he broken any game rules? Has he abused bugs? Has he done something that is objectively condemned by the game rules? AFAIK he was recently in prison for a word he used in the chat which I personally thought was yet another pile of ****. And furthermore, AFAIK he hasn't (at least recently) abused any game features or done anything against the objective game rules, so all that you're pouring here is subjective horse **** which is utterly and completely NULL. When will he have changed enough for you? Who is to judge how he's meant to change? It sounds like you all just want to keep him dead because of some personal (hate) reason and use this nice sounding "change" as an aegis. If you want him dead have the decency and guts to say "I want him to stay dead because he called me a X, Y, Z and I'm still mad at him since then". Oh he didn't treat you nicely? He doesn't always speak too politely and respectfully? Well life sucks. If you're expecting everyone to treat you justly and correctly and fit your image of what "right and wrong" is then you're in for a surprise when you step away from your keyboard. If you can't see past his "spikes" then the issue is on your side, and it means he's doing a damn good job of keeping those spikes up. Curiose, you say that DD didn't treat you nicely (or spoke to you too politely and whatnot, I don't know all the details). Please read your post again and reconsider if the problem is solely on his side. Also please don't give me all the tumblr-grade "wisdom nuggets" you were all pooping out last night with "oh you don't have friends because nobody wanted to fight for you" or "you should've revived yourself by fighting, not by this farce". You're funny. Again, what gives you the authority to impose how a player is resurrected? Blame Molquert for allowing different methods to obtain resurrection, if you really need someone to throw blame at, not DD for picking the method that was convenient to him.

To clarify, no, I did not downvote you by accident. If you want to leave, then so be it. I am conflicted as to whether I should try and talk you into staying or letting you leave like this. However, I say you give it a few days and see how you feel about it then. Don't rush into it (more than you already did).

I was actually looking for this topic as I realised it died out without anything coming out of it. I agree with Sasha to an extent, she raises a few valid points. My only objection is that the follower system (IMHO) would work with a larger number of players. What I'm saying is that I don't think a majority of the members of an alliance would spontaneously follow someone in order to force them in the alliance just for sh*ts and giggles. I'm relying on the assumption that people are aware of the consequences of their actions. However, for the sake of simplicity....How about this: Keep alliances as they are, with one exception: Have a minimum "time loyalty"/player with the alliance in order to be its leader. In other words, leadership IS decided based on loyalty, however you must have... let's say a minimum of 24 hrs? 48 hrs? (arbitrary numbers used to give an example) in the alliance in order to actually be granted leadership.

Third Sermon of Pain: Date&Time (POSTPONED TO): Tuesday, 30th of December, 20:00 ST Location: Path of Loneliness Topic: Pain as Change. Purpose of Pain. As before, all are welcome. There are a number of people I would personally like to attend, I will try and let you know. NOTE: I might postpone this if not enough people show up. I realise it's a short notice in a rather busy period. I only recently replaced my faulty keyboard and can properly type out long chunks of text. Sadly, I was unable to retrieve the logs. Apologies, it was my mistake. TL;DR (summary) - you'll have to take my word for this one, as I was unable to retrieve the logs. [spoiler] Pain is the one and only factor that can truly change people; by "truly change" I mean fundamentally alter their definition of themselves for an indeterminate period of time (I.E. true change is not dressing differently for a few days and then reverting to your old style.). By definition people are constant, until change is necessary. Necessity for change is felt as pain. [/spoiler]

I am personally happy to see things get moving and change. Whether changing for the better or not, I can't say right now. My only question so far, is: Will the vets be able to somehow experience the new intro/tutorial/story mode? Or do we have to create alts for that?

Happy Bday, Krio :)

There is no specific deadline yet. Consider the quest will run for a month (as of today) at least, unless someone else figures out the names I'm looking for really quickly.

UPDATE 2!!! Bonus stage now running. Read post at the bottom. Deadline: 8th February 2015, 23:59 ST. I'll keep it short. Your goal in order to complete this quest is the following: Find 5 names according to the details given below. There are 5 short poems located in 5 different locations across the realm which will give a clue as to either the name, tag or a popular spellword used by the respective person. For clarity, here are the stages: 1. Find the 5 locations. 2. Find the words which reveal the poem at each location. 3. Read and interpret the poems. 4. Send the details to me (via forum PM), as such: Scene - Clickable name (or description) - Key Word - Player Name. ATTENTION! There is an INSTANT win clause. Solve the following puzzle and you win the first prize immediately, regardless of the progress of the other participants. The only clue I can give is that each line of the puzzle may or may not be connected to the rest. Puzzle: KUL NARAD URR MASACHEVI EMIC GARGATUA UCI KIMINATCHA TOK JUGRAMA REWARDS (provided by the TKs) 1st prize: Nutcracker 2nd prize: 2 Gold Coins 3rd prize: 1 Gold Coin CLUES I will post (and update) clues as to where these locations are and what their key words are. NOTE that is ALLOWED for you to come and ask me in-game for clues. I will only answer public requests (no PMs, so when you ask consider that someone else may find out the clue too!) and I will not allow chat-spamming to clear it and the use of any chat distorter will disqualify you (from the instant win clause too). I reserve the right to award clues as I see fit. I will label with L clues to locations and with W clues to keywords. I will provide additional clues in this post if it is deemed that it is too difficult to progress. BASE CLUES: 1. Clear water (L). 2. What is it that my knife cannot cut? (W). 3. Sword (L). 4. I bring about change. (W). 5. Shelter (L). 6. What am I to a heretic? (W). 7. What treasures do I hide? (L). 8. Keeps home warm (W). 9. Fountain (L). 10. I am mystery (W). New Clues: 1. All the players you are looking for have also written on my PL. 2. There are no clickables (for this quest) in Necro, GG, or the Laby. PARTICIPANTS: (post below if you wish to participate and I will list your name here.) 1. Hiria 2. Lintara 3. Asthir 4. Azrafar 5. DD (?) 6. Intrigue

I would be terribly interested in Night Mode, if this "role" is still available, considering that I believe you (Mur) said it's already complete?

Quest: Lania (if the poetry event she organised is considered a quest!)

Happy birthday!

I'd say something like wearing a mask. From the given text, it looks as if you're not showing your real self (due to fear? I am unsure what kind of fear, but that's the feeling I get). While your real self is hiding behind a hardened mask (cage, metal contours that cut), the mask seems to be causing more harm than good. I will not extend this for now - this can refer to more specific things, like hiding particular parts of yourself (I.E a more emotional part while trying to look hard and strong on the outside). I will elaborate if it is deemed that I should. Acceptance? Fear? Fear of not being accepted for who you truly are? That's what I can come up with off the top of my head. Alternatively, if I am to think of this as a nightmare only and if I am allowed to extrapolate quite a bit (I.E. might go waaaaaay off topic) this looks like fear of being pushed towards something you do not want by someone from the outside. The feeling of being influenced and pressured to the point where you cannot act outside that influence at all (thus the cage and struggle to escape).

Well, this is half "wow, so accurate" half "omg so rude". http://colorquiz.com/results.php?code=m,1,4,7,5,2,0,6,3,6,7,5,1,4,2,0,6,3,0&p=full

Before I say anything, I did like that reply. Genuinely. Also, for clarification. There are currently two ideas circulating: 1. Use the follower system as described in the first post. 2. Change NOTHING other than who is able to invite (I.E leave alliances EXACTLY as they are and only allow the leader to invite people in). 1. NOW you are debating my ideas. Until now, you've been trying to dismiss them and say I have no right to argue about this because I have not effectively led a MD alliance before. That is not debating. THIS is. 2. Which is exactly what I suggested afterwards. Pip came with the idea that alliances do not need to change much, but we could only allow leaders to invite people in and keep everything else unchanged. IF this is going to work, then IF you indeed do not trust the leader, want to invite someone in to change something, then YOU have to work yourself. Not just invite Eon to do the job for you (please don't take this personally, but you are the best example I can think of, Eon). How does upping your loyalty yourself, in order to change the alliance look more lazy than inviting someone from the outside to do the dirty work for you? 3. Yes! I did not read what I said that way, and it would have helped monumentally if you had just said that from the beginning! I agree with you there, I did not consider that. However, the way I see it, (this is option 1 from the beginning of the post) the fewer people in the alliance, the fewer you have to "buy" in order to get in that alliance. I think that may counterbalance it, but I may be wrong.

Um. Do you seriously not think about people inside the alliance growing loyalty to overgrow the current leader and thus enable someone that is active to become a leader? If anyone, I was expecting you to think about that and to support it considering how up and over you're about hard work instead of favours/begging/whatnot. Have it like the MP6 system. If a player is inactive for idk, 10 days they are removed from the follower tree. So then only active players count. This won't make alliances rock solid. I just get the feeling you're too lazy to get over this impediment and end up whining about it. Not as diplomatic as usual, but I ran out of niceness early in the morning.

Despite giving my two cents, I don't want to let this derail completely, as I am interested in reaching some sort of.... finality to it, one way or the other. I think Pip suggested something along the lines of "keep the old system and allow only the leader to invite people in the alliance". What do you all think? Yes or no (instead of the follower system)?

Second sermon of Pain: Date&Time: Wednesday, 26th of November, 22:00 ST Location: Path of loneliness Topic: Necessity of Pain, short term and long term implications. As always, all are welcome. Submit your homework if you haven't yet! Also remember to jump in and contribute at any moment during the sermon, if you have something to say. LOGS (cleaned): [spoiler] [26/11/14 22:12] Aeoshattr:Hmm. *looks at the sky* Perhaps it is time to start? [26/11/14 22:15] Aeoshattr:Shall I? [26/11/14 22:15] :*Sunfire* nods [26/11/14 22:15] Lania:You shall, as I know that in an hour or 2 you'll turn in a sleepy head. :P [26/11/14 22:15] Aeoshattr:It shouldn't take more than an hour *smiles* [26/11/14 22:16] Aeoshattr:Anyway, thank you all for coming. [26/11/14 22:16] Lania: *whispers to Lin* Can't attack that one. No alliance. *turns and nods at Aeo* . [26/11/14 22:17] Aeoshattr:Last time, I believe we discussed the ways in which pain can be classified and whether those classifications are accurate or not [26/11/14 22:18] Aeoshattr:I also believe I introduced the concept of necessity of pain - which I would like to discuss today [26/11/14 22:20] Aeoshattr:So... I will begin by stating that I believe pain is necessary. Both physical and emotional, both acute and dull pain. Do you all agree? [26/11/14 22:20] Lania:Yes. [26/11/14 22:20] *Sunfire*:yes [26/11/14 22:21] Aeoshattr: *chuckles* Then let me reiterate a question from last time. What is the purpose of grieving? [26/11/14 22:21] Lania:Learning? [26/11/14 22:21] Aeoshattr:Please, go on Lani *smiles* [26/11/14 22:21] *Sunfire*:to form a counter for happyness [26/11/14 22:22] :Lintara smiles and waves to Azull and continues listening [26/11/14 22:22] Lania:Well. The most painful lessons are the best remembered and, as Sunny says, in order to appreciate the state of being well, you need its counter part. [26/11/14 22:23] Aeoshattr: *bows his head to Azull before continuing* I was on the verge of disagreeing with what Sun said, but yes, you have a point, Lani. [26/11/14 22:23] Aeoshattr:In a way - one could argue that grieving for someone that is -dead- has no purpose at all. It will not bring them back. It will not help you move on. [26/11/14 22:23] Aeoshattr:However, what Lani said is not incorrect either - one cannot appreciate happiness without times of pain. [26/11/14 22:24] Lania:No, but at some point its a natural reaction. [26/11/14 22:24] Aeoshattr: *nods* Of course - and nature rarely does something without a purpose. That is what I was trying to get at. If grieving is natural... what is its purpose? How does it help the individual? [26/11/14 22:25] Lania:Well...there are a few theories. [26/11/14 22:25] *Sunfire*: *nods to Lania* we have an emotional response to a feeling of missing from something that formed our life for a part [26/11/14 22:25] Aeoshattr: *chuckles* Please, go on [26/11/14 22:25] Aeoshattr:Both of you [26/11/14 22:26] Lania:One would be: making the individual stronger, emotionally. Second would be that it helps with relieving the tension. [26/11/14 22:26] *Sunfire*:by having a sort of emotional pain, we can get a closure on this feeling since we have had a sensation of suffering from this lack [26/11/14 22:26] Lania:That's what comes to mind now, anyway. [26/11/14 22:27] :Aeoshattr nods [26/11/14 22:28] Aeoshattr:I quite agree with that - both of you, on this matter. Pain does indeed enforce a closure to the weakened state an individual is left in after losing someone. [26/11/14 22:28] *Sunfire*:when we have learned to harnass this feeling we can learn to reuse the spot where the past person/item used to be [26/11/14 22:29] :Lania agrees [26/11/14 22:29] Aeoshattr: *chuckles* But do you truly wish to recycle that spot? [26/11/14 22:29] blackshade rider:i am here Aeoshattr [26/11/14 22:29] Aeoshattr: *grins* I will leave this particular example for next time - though think about it, if you so wish [26/11/14 22:29] :Lintara smiles and waves to Blackshade [26/11/14 22:30] *Sunfire*:we need to, our "capacity" is limited [26/11/14 22:30] Lania:Sometimes you have no choice. [26/11/14 22:30] :Aeoshattr nods to blackshade [26/11/14 22:31] Aeoshattr:Well then, I actually got very satisfactory answers - That was, I think, the toughest question I had. [26/11/14 22:33] Aeoshattr:Let's see. *rubs his chin* [26/11/14 22:33] Lania:So...time for homework? *chuckes* [26/11/14 22:33] Aeoshattr: *chuckles* Not yet. I still have a few more points. [26/11/14 22:33] Aeoshattr: *rubs his chin* Well then, thinking about this realm. [26/11/14 22:34] Aeoshattr:To the most basic level... despite our perception, we are mostly heat. I dare say little to no matter exists in our composition. [26/11/14 22:34] Aeoshattr:Anyone disagrees? [26/11/14 22:34] *Sunfire*:"our"? [26/11/14 22:35] Lania:I'm not sure what to say about that, really. [26/11/14 22:35] Aeoshattr: *nods, taking out one of his knives, slashing his wrist and watching the blood drip down* What do you see here? [26/11/14 22:35] Lania:A masochist. *chuckles* [26/11/14 22:35] Lintara:You cutting yourself again. And bleeding. Again. [26/11/14 22:36] blackshade rider:you offer to the shades [26/11/14 22:36] Aeoshattr: *chuckles* More specifically. [26/11/14 22:36] Aeoshattr:The wound bleeds, does it not? [26/11/14 22:36] Lania:A bleeding vein and lots of mess. Yes. [26/11/14 22:36] blackshade rider:yes [26/11/14 22:36] Aeoshattr:But can we be sure it's really blood, or that it is just something we perceive as blood? [26/11/14 22:37] *Sunfire*:depends on what you describe as blood [26/11/14 22:37] Lania:We'd need and expert. *looks for Eara* Unfortunatelly we don't have one [26/11/14 22:38] blackshade rider:blood is an energy source [26/11/14 22:38] *Sunfire*:if it is the life liquid of a living form, then yes [26/11/14 22:38] Aeoshattr: *chuckles* Well, my point is... we see it as blood, but can't be sure it's real blood. [26/11/14 22:38] :*Sunfire* nods to blackrider [26/11/14 22:38] Aeoshattr:We can't even be sure it's a liquid *chuckles* What's your blood, Sun? [26/11/14 22:39] *Sunfire*:i call it liquid fire or liquid sunshine, i dont really know what it is [26/11/14 22:39] blackshade rider:it not liquid nor solid it is both [26/11/14 22:39] Lania:Liquid sunshine. *chuckles to herself* That is soo..cute. [26/11/14 22:39] Aeoshattr: *chuckles* Well, going back. If my assumption is correct and there is indeed very little matter to us... Then what exactly -is- pain for us? [26/11/14 22:40] Aeoshattr: (and yes, Sunfire's made of sunshine and unicorn puke) [26/11/14 22:40] *Sunfire*:a mental stymulus [26/11/14 22:40] Lania:Alteration of our original form? [26/11/14 22:40] Lania:Violent alteration, of course. [26/11/14 22:40] :Aeoshattr points to Lani [26/11/14 22:41] Aeoshattr:Physical pain, indeed! [26/11/14 22:41] Aeoshattr:Or... what we perceive as physical pain at least. [26/11/14 22:41] Aeoshattr:Emotional pain should be unaffected by what form we take, am I correct? [26/11/14 22:42] Lania:No. Because the chemical reactions in a living body influence the mental state. [26/11/14 22:42] *Sunfire*:unless the pain is based on our displeasure of our form, but other than that, no [26/11/14 22:42] Lania:Or something like that.... [26/11/14 22:42] blackshade rider:but how can we be sure that we arent already in our original form but instead a spell unpon us to make us blind to the matter [26/11/14 22:42] Aeoshattr: *chuckles* Correct, both of you! [26/11/14 22:43] Aeoshattr:Hm. I would suppose you can test that by looking at the surroundings, Blackshade [26/11/14 22:43] Aeoshattr:And how we seem to interact with the world. Our interaction shouldn't be limited by our perception, in most ways. [26/11/14 22:43] *Sunfire*:because your surroundings are okay, doesnt mean you are rightly formed [26/11/14 22:44] *Sunfire*:both mentally and physically [26/11/14 22:44] Aeoshattr:Let's say Val can't see. If I put a boulder in his way so he trips: he can't see the boulder, but he trips on it. The boulder exists [26/11/14 22:44] blackshade rider:yes but what if the surrondings are always changing then how can you be sure mentally and phsicaly [26/11/14 22:45] *Sunfire*:can he be certain it is a boulder? [26/11/14 22:45] blackshade rider:or was it an illusion [26/11/14 22:45] Aeoshattr:No - however the boulder is independent of his perception. It is there whether he sees it or not [26/11/14 22:45] Aeoshattr:He only knows he tripped on something. [26/11/14 22:46] Aeoshattr:Thus interaction can tell us about this world - at least in broad terms. [26/11/14 22:46] Aeoshattr:Returning. If we are indeed beings of heat, then I am unsure about the exact way in which emotional pain originates and manifests. [26/11/14 22:46] *Sunfire*:very basic information tho [26/11/14 22:46] Valoryn: *shakes his walking stick* Or he can be smart enough to use his stick and avoid tripping on the boulder. [26/11/14 22:46] :Lania chuckles [26/11/14 22:47] :Aeoshattr chuckles at Val [26/11/14 22:47] Aeoshattr:I have two hypotheses, so far: [26/11/14 22:47] Aeoshattr:One: there is no correlation between physical and emotional pain. [26/11/14 22:48] Aeoshattr:If we are beings of heat, the emotional and physical pains are separate. The interconnections between them are severed because there is no body, per se. [26/11/14 22:49] Aeoshattr:Thus physical pain originates from a modification of our form, and the emotional pain has a purely mental origin [26/11/14 22:49] Aeoshattr:However, I have a second hypothesis, which I am currently inclined more to [26/11/14 22:50] :Lania listens [26/11/14 22:50] Aeoshattr:Emotional and physical pain are identical for us. [26/11/14 22:50] Aeoshattr:Our form is our mind - our soul. We are beings of heat. [26/11/14 22:51] Aeoshattr:Thus an alteration of our form which would result in physical pain also corresponds to a "direct" emotional wound [26/11/14 22:51] blackshade rider:yes but what happens if we run out of heat we perish [26/11/14 22:51] Aeoshattr: *nods* If you run -completely- out of heat, you die, by a standard definition of death. [26/11/14 22:51] Lania:Like...like getting gastritis from too much suffering >_> [26/11/14 22:51] Aeoshattr:You are erased. If you lose all stable and unstable heat [26/11/14 22:52] :Aeoshattr nods to Lani and then points to the gaping hole in his chest [26/11/14 22:52] Lania: *gasps a little, eyes wide open* Oh... [26/11/14 22:53] *Sunfire*:our mind can be seperated from our form [26/11/14 22:53] *Sunfire*:for example when we die [26/11/14 22:53] Lania: *whispers to Aeo* If there's anything left of your heart, the little spider will mend it with webs. *smiles* . [26/11/14 22:53] Aeoshattr: *nods* I currently cannot explain ghosts. [26/11/14 22:54] Aeoshattr:However, it takes death to separate our mind from our soul, if that is the only example. I can't think of a different one [26/11/14 22:54] Aeoshattr: (mind from form) [26/11/14 22:54] Justin Case:astral projection? [26/11/14 22:55] *Sunfire*:when we dream we enter a differnt perception, is it out of form? [26/11/14 22:55] Lania:Could be, Justin. [26/11/14 22:55] Aeoshattr:Dreams are... very real here. [26/11/14 22:55] :Aeoshattr chuckles [26/11/14 22:55] Azrafar:Hmm... [26/11/14 22:55] Aeoshattr:Ask Raven, if you get the chance. [26/11/14 22:56] blackshade rider:yes but can we control what happens in it [26/11/14 22:56] Aeoshattr:To an extent, yes. [26/11/14 22:56] *Sunfire*:lucid dreaming [26/11/14 22:57] Aeoshattr: (dreams are an actual thing in MD o.o) [26/11/14 22:57] :Azrafar nods [26/11/14 22:57] Aeoshattr: (Though I don't know anyone else capable of putting you in a dream other than Raven) [26/11/14 22:57] Lintara: ( *coughs* Rhaegar *coughs* ) [26/11/14 22:57] blackshade rider:yes because it is the depth of the dream that makes us see what could be the real world as to what is fake [26/11/14 22:57] *Sunfire*: (Princ Rhaegar, and Phantom used to) [26/11/14 22:58] :Lania nods at Azrafar [26/11/14 22:58] Aeoshattr: *nods* Returning. *rubs his chin* . [26/11/14 22:58] Aeoshattr:Hm. *reads through a scroll* I actually think I went through most points I wanted to go through for today [26/11/14 22:59] Aeoshattr:Are there any aspects of Pain, related to our conversation, that anyone would like to raise? [26/11/14 22:59] :Lania thinks, thinks [26/11/14 23:00] Lania:I wanted to ask what of the ones that enjoy pain, but I am nit sure if its relevant. [26/11/14 23:00] *Sunfire*:is there a thing as permanent pain? [26/11/14 23:01] Aeoshattr: *nods* I believe permanent pain exists, indeed. [26/11/14 23:02] :Lintara smiles and waves to Ailith [26/11/14 23:02] Aeoshattr:As for pain enjoyment... I wanted to ask about that. It's quite peculiar, isn't it? [26/11/14 23:02] :Ailith smiles warmly to all and curtsies [26/11/14 23:02] :*Sunfire* smiles at Ailith and nods [26/11/14 23:02] Lania:It is. Do they actually learn anything if they enjoy it? [26/11/14 23:03] Azrafar:I missed most of it, but yes, pain enjoyment is interesting. [26/11/14 23:03] Aeoshattr: *nods* Indeed! Does Pain serve its purpose for them, then? [26/11/14 23:04] Azrafar:Hmmm... I remember once I enjoyed pain. It made me laugh. [26/11/14 23:04] *Sunfire*:just like permanent happyness, i think it starts losing its meaning then, it becomes "normal" [26/11/14 23:05] Aeoshattr: *nods* The way I see pain enjoyment... I see it with thresholds. [26/11/14 23:05] Lania:Oh! And what of those who cause themselves pain to escape another form of pain. [26/11/14 23:05] Aeoshattr:Pain could be enjoyed to a point, but afterwards, it does become true Pain again. [26/11/14 23:06] Aeoshattr: *nods to Lani* I think I hinted at that last time. A greater pain can numb a lesser one. [26/11/14 23:06] Azrafar:Well, it all depends wich kind of pain. physical pain can cause a pain response. [26/11/14 23:06] Lania:Oh. *smiles* I missed the other one. Sorry. [26/11/14 23:07] Aeoshattr:No need to be sorry, Lani *smiles* [26/11/14 23:07] *Sunfire*:what of those claiming to be immune of pain [26/11/14 23:07] Aeoshattr:As for permanent pain, yes, Sun is right. It becomes "normal". All long-termed stimuli cause adaptation and become "normal" [26/11/14 23:08] Aeoshattr:There are, indeed, some incapable of feeling pain. However, they can't draw pleasure from it if they can't feel it, can they? [26/11/14 23:08] Azrafar:I think those who are "immune" developed a rapid strong response to it. [26/11/14 23:08] *Sunfire*:how is it possible? [26/11/14 23:08] Lania:I think they are either very strong in andurance or their pain receptors don't work well. [26/11/14 23:09] Azrafar:Ignoring pain needs strong will and self control. Embracing it is an entirely differnt matter. [26/11/14 23:09] Aeoshattr: *nods* Those that are truly immune cannot perceive pain. Like eye-less people can't perceive light [26/11/14 23:09] Aeoshattr:Ignoring pain is something different. [26/11/14 23:10] Azrafar:Oh, I see. [26/11/14 23:11] *Sunfire*:are they still a full form if they cannot perceive pain? [26/11/14 23:11] Aeoshattr: (Though there is a very interesting case in which you can "sense" light but not "perceive" it. I.E your eyes function, but you are not aware of light) [26/11/14 23:12] Lania:They could be, just evolved differently. But what way of learning, similar to ours through pain, do they have? [26/11/14 23:12] Aeoshattr: *nods* They can be. But if they cannot perceive pain, then they ought to take good care of their form, as they are unlikely to realise if something goes wrong [26/11/14 23:12] Lania:or would they have. :P [26/11/14 23:12] Azrafar:Yes, not feeling pain is not always beneficial. In fact, it is rarely beneficial. [26/11/14 23:16] Aeoshattr: *to Lani* I'd say that's something for next time [26/11/14 23:16] Lania:Oh...I am not sure if this is relevant, but pain has another function. [26/11/14 23:16] Lania:Oh alright. :P [26/11/14 23:16] :Aeoshattr grins [26/11/14 23:17] Aeoshattr:Hm. Anything else? [26/11/14 23:17] Lania:One more thought. [26/11/14 23:18] Lania:Pain also signals that there is something wrong in the body and...this one is from Asthir: it signifies that you are alive. *smiles* [26/11/14 23:19] :Aeoshattr chuckles and nods [26/11/14 23:19] Lania:That's it. I rest my case. *chuckles* [26/11/14 23:19] Lintara:Hurm, *chuckles* that sounds familiar [26/11/14 23:19] Valoryn:Awfully familiar. *chuckles quietly* [26/11/14 23:22] Aeoshattr: *nods* Well then, thank you all for coming and participating [26/11/14 23:23] :Lania nods [26/11/14 23:23] :*Sunfire* nods [26/11/14 23:23] :Azrafar nods [26/11/14 23:23] Lintara:Thanks for holding it Aeo! *tilts her head* Will your hand be alright or shall we go bandage it again? [26/11/14 23:23] Aeoshattr: *nods* It'll be fine. I think it stopped bleeding [26/11/14 23:24] Lintara:Hmm, okay [26/11/14 23:24] Aeoshattr: (Ailith? :) ) [26/11/14 23:25] Lania:I'll retreat now. *smiles and gets up* [26/11/14 23:25] :[Spell] To my parchment scrollbook [/spoiler] TL;DR (summary) [spoiler] How do we define Pain in MD terms, where as far as I am aware, we are beings of heat/energy or in other words souls. How are physical and emotional pain different for such a being? Alteration of one's form (be it heat or identity - Wiiya) may be an answer, but then so, can one distinguish between physical and emotional pain anymore? For the second part, pain serves the purpose of avoiding danger, in most cases, but does this apply to those that enjoy pain? Is there a clear cut answer? [/spoiler]

I was expecting a lot more debate considering how much people were talking about this in the meeting. At any rate, I like Pip's idea (as a compromise idea, so to speak) as it solves a lot of the issues that the new follower system was attempting to address, without requiring too much modification (I.E only allow the leader to invite people, as opposed to anyone in the alliance, currently). Sure, it keeps the loyalty system which feels a bit artificial (to me), but it's a simple solution to implement (the way I see it) rather than overhaul the system completely with the follower system. Thoughts?

Well. So far, if you force someone into the alliance, they can only be forced in as leaders, not as members. The way I read what I wrote in my first post, at least. Members still get invited as usual but the system could assign them to follow the current leader forcibly once they are invited. They can then follow any other ally member and retain the badge, as long as someone along the follower tree is following the current leader. EDIT: ok, say you force a new leader in, the old leader gets kicked, because he follows himself, not another ally member or its current leader. Same happens to the forced leader, if the players decide to follow someone else before he gets to follow another ally member. Does that make sense? EDIT: Recursivity makes my brain hurt.