Paying for a reduction of heat

[Chewett]

If you could pay something to reduce your heat, what would you consider an acceptable cost and what amount of heat would it take off you?

This question relates to a new feature I am working on.

[Kaya]

You mean paying as in credits? or more general?

[Dracoloth]

No clue on price, but just want to say it'd be really nice to have an alternative way to reduce heat.

[Chewett]

2 minutes ago, Kaya said:

You mean paying as in credits? or more general?

Anything. What would you pay? Items/coins/credits/creatures/etc.

[Yoshi]

By 'pay something' is this a standalone statue or something? Location and availabilty would determine pricing.

1 Silver per 10k heat?

[Chewett]

Just now, Yoshi said:

By 'pay something' is this a standalone statue or something? Location and availabilty would determine pricing.

1 Silver per 10k heat?

Imagine it was available at GoE if location matters.

[Chewett]

Would you think it should be time gated, once every x period of time?

[Else]

Personally I dont have issues with heat as long as 1 or 2 players have popes up, but if this is available for MP3/4 it could be really interesting....

[Kaya]

Also depends on who this is available to. As an MP3 losing heat is a lot more valuable than at MP5. At MP5 there's already quite a few other ways to lose it.

[Kaya]

Either way, would be good to see some less used/unused resources for this. Maybe syntropic dust?

[Dracoloth]

I'm personally of the opinion that heat needs to have easier/faster ways to drop it even at MP5. As it stands, catching up (or even coming close) to older players is just impossible, and that's not great for bringing in new players. Ideally this should be cost effective, 1 silver for 10k heat for example would never be used, at least not by an MP5.

[Granos]

Thia is already available with a wp. So the cost should fit the ammount lost. Personally I've always been a fan of steep prices. Nobody will agree with this but why not permanently sacrifice a creature slot for the heat reduction.

[Dracoloth]

9 minutes ago, Granos said:

Thia is already available with a wp. So the cost should fit the ammount lost. Personally I've always been a fan of steep prices. Nobody will agree with this but why not permanently sacrifice a creature slot for the heat reduction.

Keep in mind that you can also pay a WP for 8 credits. The value of a WP depends entirely on the wish, and isn't consistent at all.

[Fang Archbane]

It's my humble opinion that a service such as this would be at most a time saver for any experienced veteran mp5. The situation wouldn't be the same for a fresh mp5, 4, or 3. In fact, the lower down in mind powers you go, the more useful it seems it becomes.

As a Vet myself, I'd only pay for whatever time I might have saved. At most I'd pay 1 silver to go back down to 0 heat. It would be more useful, and thus logically more costly, for an mp3 or 4 to do the same, since the 4 has a harder but not impossible time dropping heat, and the 3 can not do so at all.

Problem with this logic however is obvious. I wouldn't expect, nor request an mp3 or even a 4 to pay for a heat reduction. We might want to consider making it free for the lower mind powers within reason (consider a free once a week heat drop for them) and possibly charge the vets for whatever miniscule time is saved via using this option.

In fact, when people can drop over max heat in one single battle, this method would actually take more time than the 2 clicks that single battle would.

Food for thought.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Fang Archbane

[Dracoloth]

For a little more of my personal perspective, as a new MP5, it's quite annoying to reduce heat. I actually recently used the wish Granos mentioned, a decision which I greatly regret. The only way I am really aware of to reduce heat is attacking popes, or leaving my trees in defense, each of which only give a few thousand heat reduction at a time. Whereas winning a normal fight against someone can give anywhere from 50k to 500k heat.

I've seen a few fights in the past where I lost 100k-200k heat, but I have no idea what triggered that. All of which has brought me to sort of give up on trying to advance my creatures or stats, at least for the time being until I find out how to reproduce those large heat losses. I honestly think the current heat system is quite demotivating for less experienced players who don't have the knowledge or the means to properly reduce it, and barring a total overhaul to the system, I support any addition that will make the mechanic less annoying.

That's just my 2 cents though.

[Pipstickz]

Since Brilliant Diamonds have never (to my knowledge) been given an agreed upon value but are still categorized as a valuable item, maybe one could pay a Diamond for a heat reset, perhaps also barred by the need to charge a clickable with personal heat first. ie. Gather 50k or so heat from your erolin to charge the clickie, then it asks you for one Diamond once it's charged. This method could make it easy for avid traders to reduce their heat, which at least covers a different category of players from the combat grinders who can already drop heat other ways.

[Demonic God]

Here's my 2cent, given that heat reduction was my first priority (along with crit slot to fuel that) when I first got to MP5.

In particular, other than popes, there's just another method of losing heat easily - Regen. This is a rather intricate method, can be unreliable at times, but could yield result significant for those without hundreds of thousands of max VE. 200-300k loss before erolin bonus can be achieved reliably, based on my personal experience.

If a feature were to be developed as yet another alternative, and be usable, it should be competitive as an option - convenience vs costs. Since we're getting a lot of coins from just logging in, using coins for losing heat would certainly be feasible.

To balance it out with the above 2 methods, I'd suggest paying 1SC to lose heat equal to a multiple of your max VE, but no less than a certain amount (for example, 400% of your max VE, no less than 1 Million heat - to account for the effect of Erolin heat). This amount could be tweaked for lower MP, if needed.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Demonic God

[Sunfire]

In the past there have been sales of hot creats that go for about 1sc/mil. But those were used primarily by mp4s to uncap and get a bit stronger before moving up. For big numbers there was a bulk discount.

This does favour grinders since they have the ability to heat up crits while not overheating themselves. But is it still balanced enough in a way that most grinders put less effort in other fields like resources etc.

So the question is if we need a system in place to do it.

[Aia del Mana]

I attempted to make this a reality using the Unholy Guard NPC (which had, I believe, an almost ideal ritual for heat-loss; three maxed coloured elementals and three maxed coloured popes).

The cost for this had been that one would have required a trip to Necrovion. I had previously attempted to add a cost of a round trip to the Trial of Agony, but this resulted in a loss of function of the Unholy Guard (adding a quest-key to the NPC means one cannot also lose heat from fighting it.)


I would suggest that the cost of the suggested feature should be no more than that of an appropriately heated creature that may be sacrificed. If one were able to purchase a creature with 28000000 points of heat upon it, regardless of the other intrinsic value of the creature, how much should this cost? I would think it were no more than two pieces of gold, and mayhap, far less. I would think one credit would be sufficient for this purpose, and that it would appear in the Shop.

There were already a purchase quite far within the shop that allows one to lose heat - I believe it were in the realm of 330000 points - which doth function upon an MP3 character, I believe - and so, if such a wish were merely to be brought forward within the shop (or placed in the "temporary boosters" section so that it would be readily accessible in sufficient amounts, maybe 50 or so, which would also make it so that the Rustgold Drachorn cannot be purchased immediately), this would suit.

[Ledah]

I don't believe another feature needs to be added to reduce heat. As has been noted you can currently:

1. Drop using UP/Regen
2. Sacrifice a creature
3. Wish for it

A stronger UP has been released, which should mitigate the 3 limit we have now. We are also getting, in my opinion, insane amounts of permanent VE just for logging in every day, which will help with losing VE. Also, if you are gaining heat, that means your creatures are too. While it may be less than your profile heat, if you really want to uncap that badly, perhaps sacrifice some creatures, or a WP for that matter.

[Nep]

The weird thing about the heat cap is that it disproportionally affects new people, while others who have been around for a while can shrug it off like nothing. I remember it took hours with 3-4 people helping me to get back to 0 when I first started. Which really shouldn't be the case in my opinion, or at least it is really weird from a game design perspective. 

Therefore, additional ways to lose heat are always welcome. It could either take coins, or other resources, finally adding some use to them. 

[Fyrd Argentus]

"Heat" (not to be confused with heat) is a kind of intangible with no physical form.  How about paying to get rid of it with something else intangible.  Vitality and AP have a strong role, Winertia ("value points") does not.  It seems to have little value once you have a full stable of critters.  However, it only accumulates slowly.  How about a coupling - drop "Heat" for Winertia points?  My current max Winertia is about 1/200 of my "Heat" so this is a small effect per shot.  Need to verify quantitatively for typical capped MP3/4.

You could do this by "buying" the reduction directly, or buying some intangle third thing of value at a cost of 1 "Heat" plus 1 Winertia.  Maybe temporary vitality recharge.  Of course this might be restricted to some special place.

A completely different solution would be to say capped players may attack up the MP chain at some drastic bonus (e.g., they fight a single randomly selected critter with 0% energy added) AND THOSE FIGHTS STILL COUNT TOWARDS WINS ETC. even though capped.

[MaGoHi]

8 hours ago, Chewett said:

If you could pay something to reduce your heat, what would you consider an acceptable cost and what amount of heat would it take off you?

This question relates to a new feature I am working on.

Would it be a spoiler to tell us why you are working on this?

Is it to allow perma MP3 and MP4 or all the alts so they can help out new players?

Is it on an exeption base, special case and not really intended to use often?

 

Depending on the answers to the questions the answer to your question could change.

If you want to keep forcing people to advance MP at least at some point and afaik this is still the case, as in they should or it is intended, then you could also scale the cost up for each use, this way newer players can get their heat reduced if they want/need to, but you also restrict perma MP3/4 by making it harder each time they use it. (assuming reset to 0 heat)

If you want to allow perma MP3/4 then a fixed cost would be best, coins would be good since you can take them out of the game that way

 

 

[Kyphis the Bard]

I'd personally like to see an extra option in the sacrifice menu that instead of gaining stats you could forgo whatever that stat gain would have been for the stat multiplier to instead be applied to the heat loss value.

Manages the cost and reduction rate in one go.

I also wouldn't let MP3 access it.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Kyphis the Bard

[Mallos]

Some principles, like 1 point of a principle would reduce your heat by 10,000. With a full 4,000 principles spent you could reduce up to 40,000,000 heat.

The tradeoff here is related to the creature methods of reducing heat, this is a new way to do so as the principles can help to lose heat when creature sacrifices cannot be utilized.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Mallos