Kafuuka

Seems like you'll get enough work when considering the Dutch people only. Public transportation between Belgium and the Netherlands is expensive and time consuming; once the long awaited HST arrives it will be more expensive and slightly faster. And have you looked at a map of Germany recently? I doubt traveling from Berlin is going to be fast. And then there's the fact we'll need to bring our own beer...

I like chess, but I prefer to have my full attention on it, which is tricky online. And I prefer to play with 15 minutes each.

It seems useful to have a historical perspective. I'm no historian and there have been lots of different rules. There is one system that comes to mind though. People gained citizenship by: a. birth -> this is difficult in MD which features lots of outsiders (different plane, universe or what you call it?) b. gift/pardon from a sovereign c. living in a country for 5 years You lost citizenship if you did not appear at your trial after an offense. Loosing citizenship implied you were no longer protected by laws. ie. Someone could kill you in plain daylight and walk away, no questions asked. Back in the day people didn't have any political rights, except the 'we stake our king on pitchforks if he raises taxes again' rights. Unless you put a trade ban on those giant forks, you can't take away those rights anyway. People also payed taxes, especially during war. This seems quite like what's mentioned in these quotes: [quote] what about this: - king can allow new citizens in based on their intention letter - king can kick people out of the land (remove citizenship) only if they did something against the land. That allows people to be part of a land but also be against its leader and be immune to revenge on this reason, unless they do somethign wrong for the land itself (land image, military, treason, abuse, etc) in other words, citizenship is gained by making the king accept you, but cant be removed same way [/quote] [quote] There will always be people against the leadership.. ALWAYS. There are two options that i can see: 1. To force by my rule the kings to accept within their lands also those opposed to them as long as they prove to be _LOYAL TO THE LAND_ 2. To use No Mans Land as a outcast land for all those banished from their lands, basicaly an outpost for takeover attempts and political hits. [/quote] There are a couple of more complex things that could be added. People that had their citizenship removed could be labeled as such instead of 'no citizenship'. Those ex citizens should have the option of joining a rebel force or to request amnesty in another country or even be pardoned. Imo it makes more sense to overthrow kings with the support of the citizens and banished people. Not more nor less and without the ex citizen and free spirit distinction, that would be difficult to enforce.

[quote name='Grido' date='18 October 2009 - 01:13 AM' timestamp='1255821209' post='44993'] *tries to remind certain LHO's where their loyalties are meant to [b]lay[/b]* [/quote] That definitely ain't right.

[quote name='Death Bell' date='18 October 2009 - 04:47 PM' timestamp='1255877258' post='45080'] yeah i hope so... since i don't wanna be missing out on any quest [/quote] any quest that has a large reward? I don't blame people for doing quests because of the rewards, but it gets a bit silly if you fear you might miss the big quests. People who make quests do so because they want as many people to be entertained/tortured as possible. If you manage to miss their quests you are either in a wrong timezone or not paying attention. Q page + 7 days listed in quest log, forum, chat spam... perhaps the hate list if no Q page is there. Or just ask people in chat where interesting quests can be found.

Alas crossing a border is annoying even for small countries. The last times I traveled from Antwerp to Amsterdam by train I had an average delay of 1 hour on a 2 hour trip. And it costs 37.60€ (if you go back the same day). Which is expensive compared to what young people pay to get anywhere in Belgium.

[quote name='Malaikat Maut' date='16 October 2009 - 06:13 PM' timestamp='1255709632' post='44858'] I don't know if you're addressing me or making a general observation. I hope I don't sound like that big a fallacious ass... [/quote] It is a general thing and was meant as a support for using classical physics, which also knows the problem that observation implies influence. Why make it more difficult for people to understand?

There used to be a rule about that, but people got confused and we found a way to work around it. Also, the judging has begun a while ago, it shouldn't take long anymore. So this topic should be closed, unless the mods don't like me opening a new topic to announce the winners.

[quote name='Malaikat Maut' date='15 October 2009 - 07:30 PM' timestamp='1255627847' post='44750'] There are far more compelling arguments, all based on quantum mechanics. Are you familiar with the Feynman Double Slit Experiment and particle duality? It's considered that many quantum properties change as a function of human perception. I believe in objective reality because Christianity necessitates it. [/quote] I am quite familiar with Young's double slit experiment and particle-wave duality. And actually it is not required to look at quantum to state that observations influence what is being observed. Classical mechanics work perfectly fine too. eg. an X-ray of a fractured bone. We send a lot of gamma rays through the flesh and bone, with the bone absorbing a higher amount of photons and thus the bone casts a shadow while the flesh around it does not. In observing the bone, we added a lot of gamma rays to it, hence influencing it. You can do the same at atomic level and with single photons, with the same results: you cannot observe the atom without changing it's impulse a tiny amount. Furthermore quantum effects are seldom relevant when looking at a large scale. Quantum mechanics is probabilistic in nature and when applied to large quanta, statistics will converge to an equilibrium state. Entanglement and teleportation are interesting subjects, but it is extremely difficult to put two photons in a state of entanglement. I think it's less than a year since a new record for transporting a single pair of entangled photons a long distance away from each other was set, and while they did get across an entire desert, it does show the limits of quantum magic. Years of watching Scifi shows have left me extremely skeptical when people mention quantum. 'We have no idea how it works, it is full of inconsistencies... it must be quantum mechanics! Have you heard about the particle wave duality? It is complicated and nobody understands it, and here we have something else no one understands so obviously that too is quantum.' And for people that think said Scifi approach is a good one, consider this: women often express duality, few men (if any) understand them... so women must be quantum physics.

[quote name='Malaikat Maut' date='15 October 2009 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1255616125' post='44739'] Have I won this contest yet? [/quote] Strange game. The only winning move is not to play. [quote] I've not heard anything of plant consciousness. I thought it was a logical assumption that an intelligent species of alien life would be familiar with the use and production of tools. Unless you'd like to add to your (already ridiculous) hypothetical that the aliens can teleport themselves at will and move objects telekinetically, they would have already been in need of some type of craft to be viewing Earth and a digging tool to be unearthing objects in the first place. [/quote] Consciousness is a dangerous subject. Most people consider adult humans to have a high level of consciousness, other mammals to have consciousness albeit a bit less. We know we are aware of ourselves. Some animals are self aware and capable of recognizing themselves in a mirror. Other animals clearly are capable of some thought or rely on instinct. We can easily imagine an animal that is capable of only three kinds of thoughts: food, danger and procreation. Are those consciousness or reflexes? What about plants? All plants grow towards the light (food), some have sophisticated defense systems which activate when being gnawed upon (danger). They don't have a central nerve system, but neither do insects, which are capable of more complex feats. And then the fun part: what about babies? At which point from -9 months to 21+ years does a human develop consciousness? Imagine all the aliens are Zleiphneir clones and have similar thought patterns. They are capable of building tools and use them, but they do wonder if the tools aren't secretly using the Z aliens to replicate. You now have an alien race that is surprisingly similar to humans, whilst meeting the necessary criteria. [quote] I feel that the assertion you're making necessitates that we be entirely stripped of our conscious will. You're trying to say that we build roads out of rebar, concrete, and tar because those items desire for us to do so and not because it's practical for human usage. Why don't we construct roadways out of sticks of wood, nougat, and tree sap? What if those objects or elements desired to become a road? There's just too many assumptions or "logical leaps" being made to justify that objects have any capacity to influence human consciousness. [/quote] Wood has been used for roads by the Celts actually. You don't see much of it now, since wood is less likely to be dug up, but it has been found. To further the analogy with commercials? Why do you buy product X and not product Y? Because some commercials are better than others, or because some products aren't appealing by nature.

This should be interesting, both to teach and to learn. I consider myself well versed in logic, but you cannot teach debate without explaining the difference between a logical argument and a persuasion. As an example, I'll dissect a part of a post I once made in the central market debate: [quote] 5. banking I thought MD was going to have a primitive economy? What's next, stock options in Kafuuka Milling Inc? Does anyone want to start selling those and give me the proceeds? [/quote] The first sentence contains half the argument, which if you write it out goes: - premise 1. MD is supposed to have a primitive economy. - premise 2. A primitive economy does not include banks. => MD should not include banks. The other two sentences are humor, but contain a lot of persuasive power. - premise 3. Stock options in Kafuuka Milling Inc are silly. - premise 4. If people are silly enough to buy stock options, Kafuuka will get rich sleeping. - premise 5. Getting rich while sleeping is a bug or an exploit; it is not supposed to be possible. => There should be no stock market in MD. This does not say anything about banks at all... however, most people will read one more premise. - premise 6. Banks increase the chance stock markets are found from X to Y. The persuasive power lies in people thinking that X is 0% and Y is 100%. In reality X and Y are something like 0.0000001 and 0.0000002. Even if you get the numbers right, it is stated in humorous way, so you cannot attack this argument. Note: I'm not saying I expected you to fall for the persuasion, but certain target audiences would, depending on culture, education, exposure to commercials etc.

[quote name='Malaikat Maut' date='13 October 2009 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1255462196' post='44588'] If you break humans down, we are nothing but cells/genes/atoms/quarks anyway, so the concept of identity becomes muddied if you really want to be literal. Your analogy may be correct that genes merely use us to multiply themselves, but in a way both entities are synonymous. It reminds me of a common philosophical quandary called the Ship of Theseus [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus"]linky[/url].[/quote] Which is the point. The difference between a gene (an object) and a human is made fuzzy. Personally I like the related topic of vagueness and the example: a small number + 1 is still a small number 1 is a small number -> 1 + 1 is a small number induction -> every positive integer is a small number Somewhere along the way induction failed. We can't say where, but 1 billion is usually not considered a small number. Also in biology the term emergence is often used: phenomena that occur when looking at the large picture but cannot be explained while looking only at the parts. All of these concepts contribute to doubting the difference between humans and objects. [quote]The problem is that you're attributing intelligence or even instinctual behavior to items that possess none. Also, social evolution such as memes ties back in to my original post about ideological paradigms. Their progressions are brought about by our thoughts and actions within culture or through discoveries and innovations. They are all necessitated by human consciousness.[/quote] Intelligence has many guises. eg Look at parasites. They have a very complex way of life, doing amazing things, like changing the color of an ant from black to bright red, so that birds will be more prone to spot and eat them. Thus ingesting the parasite and spreading it's offspring. That is a very intelligent scheme. However, it is not the parasite that thinks 'hej, what if I make my ant host change color so birds can see her better?'. So is it necessary for an object to think? Furthermore, at some point in evolution consciousness and thought must have started. It might be extremely unlikely such an event happens again, but it is possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method better explanation of Monte Carlo than I gave. As for objects using us literally, it is difficult to imagine. Something that startled me when I first heard it was the idea that genes are not the way we create offspring, but humans are an interesting way for genes to multiply themselves. In a similar fashion, we use cars to drive around, yet you could think cars use us to get build. We all know humans were there before cars were invented and thus reject the idea. But then again, where do humans come from? And what about drugs and memes? @Malaikat Maut: I do not consider it unfortunate that neuroscience hasn't been able to declare consciousness is nothing but electrochemical.

[quote name='Phantom Orchid' date='09 October 2009 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1255120351' post='44200'] Though I do see these positions as perhaps necessary - and welcomed - for the mechanics of gameplay, the prospect of having a monarchic rule by a king over the land of Loreroot is essentially inimical to the land itself. By definition, a king is a ruler or head of state. He (or she, if it be a queen - though that is another discussion) lays a claim [i]of entitlement over[/i] the land itself and all its inhabitants. It is this idea of ownership which is so unsettling. Loreroot is made of many[i] diverse [/i]inhabitants, and its resiliency is owed to this cohabitation of differences. What will happen when some / all of its inhabitants become relegated to serfdom![/quote] A king is not necessarily a totalitarian ruler. For a nice example look at the Belgian monarchy, our king is mostly reduced to a ceremonial function; last time a king (Boudewijn) disagreed with the parliament, they declared him unfit to rule for 36h, ratified a new law on abortion and then reinstated him. In fantasy (and perhaps history) there have been many kings who lead their people in battle at the front lines, acting like a champion. Or knights who undertake quests for the benefit of their people (eg. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Knightfall though I am not sure if it's a king or just a lord). I once read a story where the king was considered the lowest person of the society, because it was his duty to serve his empire and his people, not to rule over them. Sadly I know no real life examples of this, but MD is still a fantasy game and as such not bound to the assumption that power necessarily implies corruption and kingdoms imply dictators.

@Guybrush: Kriskah is very busy with work and has no idea when she'll have time to play. She seems to be logging in and checking pm occasionally, but that's about it probably. @Ignatious: We obviously have premium creatures because servers cost real money. Items were supposed to be used for roleplay. I disagree that disinformation is the main reason trade is few. It plays a part, but the larger reason is a lack of influx and outflux. Western economies are based on massive consumption: goods need to be destroyed as quickly as possible after their purchase, so that there is a need to buy new ones. The current rate at which this occurs is pants on head retarded in real life, and next to zero in MD. Rare creatures can't be created at a huge rate, lest they become common. People do not sacrifice rare creatures except if memeticly infected through Fenrir. Items cost wish points, which makes it highly unlikely one will sell the item after questing for it. [post='30224']See also this post and the rest of that thread[/post], it's funny to reread it now that certain events have passed. Price information still is a problem that should be tackled. It is also more likely than solving the flux problem. (It doesn't rely on Mur fixing it for us.)

[quote name='Sparrhawk' date='08 October 2009 - 08:06 AM' timestamp='1254981969' post='43984'] This idea doesnt and wont work, creatures cant be set at a fixed value, there are variables age tokens, and even if you do fix a price on it some will sell for more some less there really cant be a standard price as it will always vary sometimes lots of people will want bloodpacts and you may be able to sell for a high price then later on not so many buying if any and you will only get a lower price its supply and demand in this situation its not really plausable to label every creature with a fixed price its all about what you will accept and what others will accept [/quote] Supply and demand exist in real life too, yet tracking prices works there. Instead of looking at a fixed price, people look at the history of what others paid for a certain share. Usually one finds that information in newspapers, presented in long tables of numbers or small graphs. Way back I said it would be fun if the MD newspaper included a financial section. For this to work we need only a method to register a large percentage of the trades taking place. Ideally we'd know about all of them, but that is neither necessary nor plausible.

[quote name='Ignatious' date='07 October 2009 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1254942775' post='43933'] Kafuuka, why don't you let me see what you already have? I will hound individuals about the things you do not have, and see what I can come up with. Also think the market idea would be great [/quote] What I have is a simple survey made in php and a dozen entries, which are now outdated. If you still want them, I'll mail them to you as soon as I can (there's some maintenance on the server which is expected to take a few days). Other than that I only have ideas. What is needed is some hard code and propaganda work and/or better ideas.

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='06 October 2009 - 01:43 AM' timestamp='1254786239' post='43785'] @Kafuuka: SAW style situations are good too? [/quote] I only read the synopsis of that movie. I guess it will be very tough to work without any kind of device at all (in the summary of SAW, bombs and cuffs were mentioned). And quite tricky to counter every possible magic or even mundane method that could free the victim. MD has a lot of smart people, some might be able to pull it off, but it also implies that victims are smart and difficult to contain.

I know what they are afraid of. I also know most people would be served by open prices. I guess it's time for socialism in MD.

As Burns said, people don't feel like cooperating at all. I made a survey and only a dozen people participated. Most trade topics are closed without any details of what price was agreed to... There is only one way I can think of to get the data we want and that is to scrap the trade subforum and force people to use a new auction site, that tracks which trades have happened before. I think I know how to code such, but there's webspace and time issues (I'm currently rather busy), as well as integration issues, the question whether it will be used and if I'm allowed to look at the MD code (yeah, that's not going to happen, but it would improve tracking capacity).

We decided on the minimum AD rule for various reasons, the most relevant in this case is 'familiarity with the realm'. The average person spends at least a week to absorb the vast amount of information that is available in MD. Most people spend weeks or months to write their papers too, which makes participating in your first week unlikely. However, if you can prove me wrong, I'll make an exception.

Contrary to what most people will say, I never cared about Adam. Watching people die on the evening news every day numbs your feelings. I did think it was sad, but that is not the same as feeling sad and the thought was followed by the question 'what if it happened to me?' None of the people I communicate with outside of the internet, know or care about MD. The internet can bring out the worst in people and in me it enhances paranoia and skepticism. Why this sudden revelation? Why now? The offense made several people sad and now the confession makes people angry. Does the truth really serve us in this case? I don't believe you did this on a whim, and neither that you feared the truth would come to light eventually.

[quote name='Udgard' date='03 October 2009 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1254570653' post='43584'] One question please. DO we submit our entry here (open to public eyes), or send via email? [/quote] Here, so your victims (if specified) can see them . If you consider your design so awesome that it is worth stealing, then don't post it early... however if someone else comes up with the same idea and posts it sooner, you're done for.

In theme with the festival: a torture device creation contest. Organization would be similar to the paper shaper contest: people get a fortnight to sign up and submit a description of their device, including sketches or photos. A jury would then review the devices based on categories such as: intensity, duration, spectacle. Bonus points for people who build a real model.

[quote name='Aeoshattr' date='02 October 2009 - 09:38 AM' timestamp='1254469102' post='43505'] Is anybody actually checking this topic at all? [/quote] It has been long enough since the first time factions were mentioned for me to doubt my memory of what was said. I thought factions were supposed to have one or two RPCs in them? And that RPCs were encouraged to partake in factions. So the factions that are mentioned in this thread are probably not the only ones being planned and it is not supposed to be an invitation to make new ones. However nothing is fixed yet, so there could be place for new ones.